Cab Design

[Dmoney]

this is all interesting, after reading some things on speaker design and after reading up on my own cab and working on my own wiring ideas etc, ive been thinking about building cab's as a past time. maybe starting with 2x12's or something smaller.

i need to find some documentation on designing for guitar cabs, though i have some things i want to try already if i do get round to doing this, i just need to get up to scratch on the science. Its been a while since if done acoustics at a theory or mathmatical level.

does anyone think there is a market for this? custom cabs? not just retolexing but a total build with a few hidden tricks in the cabinet construction? I even thought about using exotic laminates on the outside and staining the cab so rad colours. would probably be really expensive for big slabs of wood to do that, but it would make a fantastic looking cab. not really one to take gigging though.

would you buy a custom cab? and what would you want from it?

[ailean]

I think this would be a tough market. Yes I'd buy a custom cab, but I'd have to know what it's giving me that a Marshall / Mesa / Randall / Blackstar / HK and how many other amps manufacturers don't give me.

You've either got to have some that others don't, or do simlar but cheaper, or better and about the same cost.

If you are only making cabs then you have to overcome the 'this cab was made with this head in mind' selling point of the brands. It's worked on me twice now :)

I just spent a load on a cab that was designed with the head in mind, and I know they spent 9 months on the R&D. Now I don't know for sure how it's going to turn out (still awaiting delivery), maybe it won't be worth it, but you'd have a hard time getting my business against that kind of selling point.

Now if I had the cab for 6 months and it wasn't doing the job for me, then I might well come to you with a shopping list of things I need. That's the kind of business you need to get, I guess.

You *might* find it easier to get in with an amp manufacturer, then you can get the cross selling going (and plenty of test rigs :) ).

[Dmoney]

thats a good point.
i've never been that sold on particular cabs, mainly because of the way my bands is used to operating. lots of bands at a show will share drum shells (not bass pedal, cymbols, or snares) and cabs. not amps, not guitars.

due to this ive played a lot of cabs. the other weekend i had to endure a Harley Benton 4x12 (with a 2ohm input???) and some stereo only 8ohm a side Line6. the line 6 was at a different venue to the harley benton, but at that show i was the only guitarist, i used a 1960A and i also have a long speaker lead to play out of two cabs at either side of the stage, but in this case i couldn't use it.

I've also played mesa cabs using mesa, peavey, and marshall heads. peavey cabs, trace elliot cabs, various marshall cabs, unbranded 2x12 & 4x12 cabs.

from  this, i think that you know, some cabs are designed with heads in mind, but some heads still sound better with other cabs. I always disliked how dark mesa reco cabs sound whenever i used them, wasnt that bad in the US when we toured using 2 of them though.

I bet it could take a while to get design details like resonant frequency of a cab down, plus and minus the benefits of fibre damping, ports, open/semi-open/closed backs, fixed or floating baffles, woods & contsruction, front loading or rear loading speakers, plus speakers and wiring choices.

I think i'd have to find some good british parts and woods, like you say, try and keep costs down. Its either build some awesome players bits, or go for excellent cabs with things like birdseye maple sides that look more like works of art.

i need to read up on a lot of for theory. I think id have to actually build something and test out all the possible features over an extended period of time as a 'research' project or something.

still, i hope it doesnt sound like a dumb futile idea. i need a new hobby. haha.

[maverickf1jockey]

There are a number of established companies that are doing custom cabinets; Ear Candy and Matamp (do remember that Matamp have been a custom shop factory building to order since their inception.) come to mind.

Your major thing to allow would be for the customer to be able to specify speakers that you would use. Also I would look to create a range of standard options for a set of generic sounds (every custom shop worth its salt tends to have a stock set of clones used to quickly fill up a roster of quality products. I should perfect this and then move onto original designs with the knowledge earned from this exercise.).

[Dmoney]

Ear Candy is US based. I'm aware of matamp and a bunch of other place in the UK.
i'd have to come with something different, and id let people go with whatever speakers they like.

Im going to do a lot of reading up and try to come up with some ideas. im not going to jump into it.

[Adam.M]

Theres this Zilla Music guy who makes custom cab's in cornwall, check him out.

I think it'd be hard to sell them... a fair few bassists actually build their own cabs but no one sells them.

The only thing that's out there that I personally want to try out is a 1x12 Thiele cab, which I think only Mesa/Boogie do but it's rather expensive.

[ailean]

If it were me, I'd approach this as an expensive hobby, know I'm going to burn a lot of time and money on things that just won't work. However, if you do find 'something' that people will want, then you can start thinking about taking it to the market place.

I'd say you've got upwards of a year of R&D to do before you start hitting your stride, only a guess, but for that year you need to not be thinking about it as a business, and just enjoy the experience and not sweat about the cost.

I'd certainly see what your competition are up to as well, and how they market their products.

Go for it, enjoy it, and I hope you get some business out of it!

[Dmoney]

Theres this Zilla Music guy who makes custom cab's in cornwall, check him out.

I think it'd be hard to sell them... a fair few bassists actually build their own cabs but no one sells them.

The only thing that's out there that I personally want to try out is a 1x12 Thiele cab, which I think only Mesa/Boogie do but it's rather expensive.

this Zilla Music is the guy who is retolexing my cab. hes based in west london now.
i asked him a few questions about cab construction when i dropped mine off, about how important a the centre pillar from baffle to back is, and about filling in around the baffle with stuff. I didnt feel like he gave me an answer really about the odd thing. I read that Diezel and Bogner use the same wholesale cab builder for thier cabs, but whats inside them is company specific. its all interesting.

If it were me, I'd approach this as an expensive hobby, know I'm going to burn a lot of time and money on things that just won't work. However, if you do find 'something' that people will want, then you can start thinking about taking it to the market place.

I'd say you've got upwards of a year of R&D to do before you start hitting your stride, only a guess, but for that year you need to not be thinking about it as a business, and just enjoy the experience and not sweat about the cost.

I'd certainly see what your competition are up to as well, and how they market their products.

Go for it, enjoy it, and I hope you get some business out of it!

agreed,
id only start off to build myself a cab first, and to test out different things. then if it was cool invite other people to try it out. i can't see myself getting ready to build anything for a while, simply because i dont have time right now, but as something to do in future when i HAVE time. it SEEMS a little less involved than amp design, which id LOVE to do.

[Adam.M]

Theres this Zilla Music guy who makes custom cab's in cornwall, check him out.

I think it'd be hard to sell them... a fair few bassists actually build their own cabs but no one sells them.

The only thing that's out there that I personally want to try out is a 1x12 Thiele cab, which I think only Mesa/Boogie do but it's rather expensive.

this Zilla Music is the guy who is retolexing my cab. hes based in west london now.
i asked him a few questions about cab construction when i dropped mine off, about how important a the centre pillar from baffle to back is, and about filling in around the baffle with stuff. I didnt feel like he gave me an answer really about the odd thing. I read that Diezel and Bogner use the same wholesale cab builder for thier cabs, but whats inside them is company specific. its all interesting.

If it were me, I'd approach this as an expensive hobby, know I'm going to burn a lot of time and money on things that just won't work. However, if you do find 'something' that people will want, then you can start thinking about taking it to the market place.

I'd say you've got upwards of a year of R&D to do before you start hitting your stride, only a guess, but for that year you need to not be thinking about it as a business, and just enjoy the experience and not sweat about the cost.

I'd certainly see what your competition are up to as well, and how they market their products.

Go for it, enjoy it, and I hope you get some business out of it!

agreed,
id only start off to build myself a cab first, and to test out different things. then if it was cool invite other people to try it out. i can't see myself getting ready to build anything for a while, simply because i dont have time right now, but as something to do in future when i HAVE time. it SEEMS a little less involved than amp design, which id LOVE to do.

I didn't know that about Diezel and Bogner... hmm, and people say Bogner make the best cabs.

It's something I'm interested in myself too, knowing how it's constructed and why they're constructed a certain way, making a cab to fit specific speakers frequencies etc.

Personally like i said before, the only cab i'd ever want is a cheaper Tehile 1x12 than Mesa Boogie do, which I think is vastly open priced for what is essentially just a front ported cab. I know theres more science involved with it, but damn, 350 for a 1x12? madness!

I think it would be cool to be able to build your own cabs, specific to your own needs. And being that you tour quite a lot I'm sure you could think of something to save space in the van or something!

I guess also if you got really good at it, you could start building the cabs for small time boutique builders who don't have time or aren't able to build their own cabs.

[Dmoney]

apparently its true about diezel and bogner, but the bogner uberkab mixes G12T-75's with V30's and has polyfiber wadding on the back panel. i don't think the diezel has that, both awesome cabs by accounts but some people are going to prefer one or the other. naturally.

the porting thing is interesting, and tuning to a resonant frequency and so on, thats all stuff for me to read up on

[ailean]

No longer true of Diezel, they have their own factory in Dillingen, Germany where they make their new generation of cabs. I know because I've been emailing Peter Stapfer (one of the directors) about the new hempcone rear loaded cabs, and that's how I know it took 9 months of R&D :)

Hopefully he's making mine this week!  :D :D :D  8)

[Dmoney]

No longer true of Diezel, they have their own factory in Dillingen, Germany where they make their new generation of cabs. I know because I've been emailing Peter Stapfer (one of the directors) about the new hempcone rear loaded cabs, and that's how I know it took 9 months of R&D :)

Hopefully he's making mine this week!  :D :D :D  8)

Ah!
interesting! haha. yoou excited about these hempcone jobs then?

[FELINEGUITARS]

I know Gwem has a couple of Thiele 1x12 cabs

What difference is there over a regiular 1x12 cab
Does it sound better / tighter/ bigger?

Here is some stuff I dug up from www.webervst.com

T-S Parameters
Context: Where can I get the T-S Parameters for this speaker?
Description: Loudspeakers are electromechanical devices, or more precisely, electroacoustic transducers. The goal is to convert energy in the form of electrical power to energy in the form of acoustic power. Since loudspeakers have both electrical and mechanical properties, it stands to reason that there are specific mathematical quantities that represent both the electrical and mechanical properties. To design a set of mathematical formulas to combine these quantities and then describe the overall characteristics of the loudspeakers was the goal of two acoustic researchers named Neville Thiele and Richard Small, hence the term T-S Parameters.
They measured a few of the parameters of the loudspeaker such as electrical resistance of the voice coil, free air reasonant frequency, inductance of the voice coil, and the cone size. Then, they would mount the speaker in a sealed box of a known volume and remeasure the resonant frequency as well as a few other parameters. Their extensive set of formulas could then be employed to determine and estimate very accurately the remaining unknown quantities of the loudspeaker (or driver), such as the system Q, the volume of air displaced by the cone, voice coil (motor) strength, overall efficiency, and estimated SPL. The resultant parameters are invaluable to speaker cabinet designers, enabling them to design the cabinet, porting, etc. to match and be compatible with the parameters of the loudspeaker. In very simple terms, if you consider the loudspeaker as a signal source with a specific characteristic impedance, by using the T-S Parameters you would be able to design a cabinet that would match the characteristic impedance of the source. This would allow the loudspeaker to operate at optimum efficiency over its frequency and power band. Most manufacturers will provide the T-S Parameters of their loudspeakers and drivers upon request, and some offer examples of designs for both sealed and ported enclosures which will be optimum for their loudspeakers and drivers. By searching the World Wide Web, you can find many examples of cabinets, formulas, and driver data. When you read about a particular guitar amp speaker enclosure and the ad says Thiele cabinet, it means that the designer has employed the T-S parameters of the loudspeaker(s) he or she is using in the design of the enclosure or cabinet.

[ailean]

Ah!
interesting! haha. yoou excited about these hempcone jobs then?

Yup :)

Here's what he has to say about them:

thank you very much for your inquiry.

The 412RT is made of 15mm birch. weight 49 kg (sorry about that...)
I use the tone tubby ceramic hemp cone.
The sound is very organic. In my humble opinion its the perfect mach of V30 and greenbag in one speaker.
It coveres the nice mid range of a greenbag  and the smooth bottom end of a V30.
The bottom response moderate and the center frequency is slightly above the V30. In the context of a band itīs in the perfect spot.

It tried almost all styles together with bands (except of really heavy metal)

The diameters are 74cm X 74cm X 36cm

I assume he means Greenbacks :)

[Dmoney]

that cab sounds crazy.
big and heavy! good descriptions of speakers though. sounds cool.
im waiting to get my cab back to get this X pattern thing going.
im still really tempted by jensen tornado's and electric lightning speakers.

incidently does anyone make speakers that are truly british made?