Looking for some advice after purchasing a new guitar

[shobet]

Well, after all the posts from people about the PRS McCarty guitars that have been bought lately I seem to have gone and bought a new one as well!



I'm more than happy with the guitar, it has a couple of chips on the headstock so I got it a bit cheaper and they laboured the point that it was at the old prices and that I was having a great deal. However, PMT couldn't find the correct case, any of the case candy, tools or paperwork for the guitar. Eventually they did find a PRS case, threw in the usual lead, strings and strap. This lack of supporting paperwork made me a bit suspicious and I asked how long they had had it in stock, to which the answer I was given was it's been here over a year. I asked it it was the old Soundcontrol stock and they said yes. Fair enough I thought, things like this can happen, especially given what Soundcontrol went through.

However when I got home and was talking to a fried who has one or two PRS guitars, I mentioned my concerns and he asked me for the serial number. Imagine my surprise when he told me the guitar was made in 2002! Going to the PRS web site confirmed it. So my new guitar is potentially 7 years old! I've no idea what my rights are in a case like this. You could argue that the guitar is new, however I'm looking at a 7 year old guitar, which I think I've paid 2008 money for! Does anyone know what the RRP of the guitars in 2002/2003 was compared to the 2008/2009 prices?

I'm also concerned as I financed the purchase with one of the Arts Council 0% finance deals. So I'm not sure what the situation will be if I decide to take the guitar back to the dealers and reject it. I realise the finance deal is with a separate party to the purchase which I think will complicate things no end.

Do any of you know what my legal obligations and rights are in a situation like this?

I'm going to be ringing the dealer later and then off down the CAB if I don't get a satisfactory reply from PMT. I've also asked the distributor to confirm that I am indeed the first owner of the guitar.

[Twinfan]

You probably guessed I was going to chime in here  ;)

Brand new, your McCarty would have been around £2000.  The RRP hasn't change that much since then.  I actually bought a 'brand new' 2001 McCarty last year (see pic below).  Mine had a couple of very small dings and a few scuffs on the case, plus it was missing the hang tag (had the correct tools and paperwork though).  There was a big clear out at the distributors about 6 months ago and a bunch of "New Old Stock" PRS guitars came on the market with slight dings/scratches etc.  Yours could well be one of them?  They should have told you this at PMT, but if it was ex-Sound Control stock they might not have known much about it.

To give you an idea of prices:

RRP of a McCarty = £2000
Current used McCarty value in the same spec as yours without the case candy = £1150
What I paid for the NOS guitar below (paid a premium for the one-piece top) = £1500
The price I saw for a NOS like yours with a two-piece top = £1400

As long as you paid around £1400-£1500 you paid the right price.  More than that, and I think you should complain.......

[FELINEGUITARS]

Ask yourself the more important questions:
Is it a great guitar ?
Does it sound good?
Does it play nicely?
Will you enjoy it and love it?
Does it make a great sound?
Does it have a certain something that you will grow to love?

If yes then you got a great guitar (at whatever price)

To be fair a shop can sell it's goods for any price they like regardless of whether it's this years model or ten years old.
They could have their guitars up for twice what anyone else sells them for and it would be you as a consumer that would decide whether or not you wanted to purchase anything.
Sometimes customers do chose to shop in shops that have slightly higher prices because they might also get better service in that shop (or some other intangible reasons).
I personally prefer to shop in Waitrose rather than Asda  or Tescos as it is a much more pleasant experience and seems devoid of screaming children (at least in the one I go to)

However I am usually price conscious when making purchses- especially big items.
But I recently  got burnt dealing with a well known cut price trader when buying a digital camcorder recently (www.purelygadgets.co.uk)
They took my money, didn't have the item in stock and kept lying about that they were going to send the thing out
Then I felt like I had to fight to get a refund on my credit card.
The service was too bad to warrant any discount that I would have gotten.
So I kind of learnt a bit of a lesson _ I will in future prefer to go into a shop where they physically have the item on the shelf.

Anyway - thats all a bit off-topic

I just wanted to say - if the guitar is a really good one you did ok
After 7 years it will have settled down a lot too - timbers do take a bit of time to relax and allow a guitar to really sing.




The case issue and stuff is a tad annoying and I would be rattled by that, but I think that a guitar with a bit of soul outweighs your worries.

[shobet]

I contacted Headline music - the distributor - and this is a guitar that was supplied originally to Sound Control (Academy of Sound) around 2002/2003. So they've had it that long. What I'm annoyed by is the fact I specifically asked how long they'd had it and their answer of over a year, whilst technically true is a slight misrepresentation of how long they've actually had it and was a factor in my decision to purchase the guitar.

They had it up at £1999 and with the shop damage to the headstock reduced it to £1699. So whilst I like the guitar, it's soured by the fact that I've not been told the truth about it. I'm off to ring PMT now and see what they say. I have to go and read the Sale of Goods act whilst I'm at it as well. Oh joy...

[FELINEGUITARS]

I do agree with you about misleading salesmen
I know they have a job to do and sales targets to meet , but dishonesty never wins the day

[Twinfan]

[picky mode]
I suppose they've only had it year though haven't they?  So they answered your question accurately?
[/picky mode]

I'd see what PMT offer to do about it.  I have a funny feeling they don't have to do anything though, but some goodwill gesture might be offered.

Let us know how you get on, and which branch of PMT it was  ;)

[PPPMAT]

PMT are usually ok lads (in Birmingham anyway) best off going down there and eyeballing them I say. I don't think they have misled you as they probably have had it a year. I don't think that they have to do anything but in the spirit of customer relations i think they should

[dave_mc]

if they lied to you, they shouldn't be allowed to do that. what feline is saying about shops charging what they like is fair enough, but that's if the shop is telling the truth. Not if it's lying. Would definitely be worth contacting consumer direct, citizens' advice bureau and/or the office of fair trading to see what they say. The OFT website used to be great, but now they've moved a lot of the stuff to the much more gimmicky consumer direct website, which is more or less total cr@p. But it has humorous (!) photos, so I guess that's progress. :roll:

I don't see why you should have to put up with it. You bought it in good faith, and you were only willing to pay that price because you thought it was only a year old.

I really don't understand the "I don't think there's anything you can do" attitude from some of the other members. I've seen this on other forums too. The shop lied (whether or not it was intentional) to you to get you to buy something. That's not right, and you shouldn't have to suffer because of it. If we all just shrug and put up with it, the next person who gets caught out by these shady practices might be you.

[shobet]

After speaking to the CAB and ringing up the Consumer Direct people to establish my rights.

I've run up PMT and have spoken to the manager at the shop. They were apologetic and more than helpful, which came as a surprise to me. He's made me an offer which I'm going to think about overnight. I'll update this when I've decided what I'm going to do.

[dave_mc]

sweet, glad to hear that. :)

[Roobubba]

After speaking to the CAB and ringing up the Consumer Direct people to establish my rights.

I've run up PMT and have spoken to the manager at the shop. They were apologetic and more than helpful, which came as a surprise to me. He's made me an offer which I'm going to think about overnight. I'll update this when I've decided what I'm going to do.

This sounds like the PMT guys in Oxford when I had a problematic Randall. To be brutally fair, I specifically asked them to get the Randall in (it was at another store), and they ended up giving me my money back after it had to be repaired twice in short succession - but other than a bit of faff at the beginning, I can't fault PMT's customer service.
I don't particularly like large chains (in any field), but the guys there really were very good about the whole thing.

Fingers crossed you have a deal worth considering hard, and I'd like to echo Feline's point: if it's a great guitar, it's worth the money! Unlike most things these days, guitars usually age well ;)

Roo

[Twinfan]

I really don't understand the "I don't think there's anything you can do" attitude from some of the other members. I've seen this on other forums too. The shop lied (whether or not it was intentional) to you to get you to buy something. That's not right, and you shouldn't have to suffer because of it. If we all just shrug and put up with it, the next person who gets caught out by these shady practices might be you.

Have they actually lied though?  I don't think that was clear.  It sounds like it's a new guitar (even if it is 7 years old), they said they'd had it a year, and that it was ex-Sound Control stock.  If they're not a PRS dealer usually, and/or the sales guy was rubbish, they might not know how to date it or even that they COULD date it, from the serial number.  If Huw didn't ask specifically how old the guitar was then they haven't lied?

Huw - I hope it works out for you one way or the other  :)

[dave_mc]

Have they actually lied though?  I don't think that was clear.  It sounds like it's a new guitar (even if it is 7 years old), they said they'd had it a year, and that it was ex-Sound Control stock.  If they're not a PRS dealer usually, and/or the sales guy was rubbish, they might not know how to date it or even that they COULD date it, from the serial number.  If Huw didn't ask specifically how old the guitar was then they haven't lied?

possibly... it's pretty grey. They should have been more up-front... I mean, if shobet could find out the exact age so easily, why couldn't the shop?

He also asked how long they'd had it- they said a year. to most people, that would mean it was a year old. He had to ask another question, if it was the old SC stock, to get a straighter answer.

Maybe it's not technically lying, but if you ask me, that's semantics- it's certainly being economical with the truth. When you ask a shop how long they've had it in stock, you generally mean how old it is.

[HTH AMPS]

whats the problem if it's a new guitar thats been unsold for 7 years and is shop-soiled?

[dave_mc]

the shop implied that it was nowhere near as old as that. if the shop hadn't thought it might put shobet off, they'd have told him the truth, presumably. Unless it was an innocent mistake... in which case they should still try to make it right (which they appear to be doing, to give credit where it's due). :)