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Author Topic: Holydiver vs. JB?  (Read 23586 times)

Twinfan

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2009, 10:30:42 PM »
I'm not sure about this "JBJ" sticker thing.  I've also got a JB Trembucker which I probably bought around 1990/91.... and it has a "TB4J" sticker.  Surely Maricela Juarez didn't wind that one too?

Yep - that's what the J means  ;)

Dr. Vic

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2009, 10:33:03 PM »
I'm not sure about this "JBJ" sticker thing.  I've also got a JB Trembucker which I probably bought around 1990/91.... and it has a "TB4J" sticker.  Surely Maricela Juarez didn't wind that one too?

if it has a J, then she did
she still is the custom shop manager
seymour is just a salesman  :lol:

Pretty much interesting input Eric !

Philly Q

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2009, 10:50:24 PM »
I'm not sure about this "JBJ" sticker thing.  I've also got a JB Trembucker which I probably bought around 1990/91.... and it has a "TB4J" sticker.  Surely Maricela Juarez didn't wind that one too?

if it has a J, then she did
she still is the custom shop manager
seymour is just a salesman  :lol:

OK, that's good.  :D

But then the "J"/Maricela sticker can't mean that these are the magical "old" JBs.  Mine are (I think) 1985 and 1990 and (to my untrained ears) they don't sound significantly different from the more recent ones I've owned.   I thought the "old" ones went back further than that.... but again, I wish I knew when they're supposed to have "changed".  :?
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ericsabbath

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darkbluemurder

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2009, 09:36:21 AM »
I have played a few Duncan JBs. One was in a custom guitar I played in the late 80s, so I guess this was an old one. It replaced an OBL ("Original Bill Lawrence") L-500XL. The guitar still sounded thin. BTW I later had EMGs in this guitar (81 in the bridge) which made it sound even thinner.
The next I had in a Gold Top Les Paul, which I acquired in 1991, so I guess this is an old one, too. Absolutely muddy, no cut at all. The volume control just worked like an "On-off-switch" with no possibility to clean up the tone. I quickly replaced this mudbucker with a SD 59. Much better.
Most recently I had one in my Korean Brian Moore guitar (came stock with it - definitely a new one). This is a bright guitar. The JB sounded thin and muddy at the same time which is quite an achievement. I replaced it with a DiMarzio Tone Zone which has a lot more power and punch - OK it cannot be cleaned up with the volume control either. I tried this JB in a different guitar - same verdict.

My opinion about the JB: one of the most overhyped p.o.s. It has too much output for dynamic playing and not enough punch for harder styles. Worst of all worlds. It was not even on the long list when I decided to replace the pickups in my PRS Custom, which is not a bright guitar.

The Holydiver feels at home in this guitar. It is dynamic, has punch and is not muddy. To me the Holydiver sounds nothing like a JB - thank God! 

Twinfan

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2009, 09:48:14 AM »
I still say it's all down to the guitars.

The JB will have been tested and specced up for guitars available in the early eighties.  Woods used and construction methods were different back then.

The HD was designed recently, using more recent guitars, hence it works well in new guitars.

The interesting test would be to put a brand new JB and HD into in both an eighties guitar and a new guitar.  If anyone has a new JB knocking about I wouldn't mind testing it back-to-back in my PRS McCarty with the current HD, and I can compare it with my 80s Ibanez RG (plus the old JB in my '87 Baretta)................

kevinr

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2009, 10:56:53 AM »
I have a 92 Berlin fitted with a JB at the bridge (original) and a 94 Berlin with HDs, I have been doing a A/B and I really can't find much in common in their sound, the JB is much brighter (thinner!) and lacks what we all buy BKPs for, that quality of sound that is hard to describe, we just know when we hear it.

PhilKing

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2009, 11:58:24 AM »
The specs are really different and to me the sound is totally different having had both - my original JB (which is so old that there is no mention of Seymour Duncan anywhere on it and it only has the sticker on the baseplate, which I am pretty certain is just JB), has a DC resistance of 14.74K and has a different reading in each coil (I think 7.22 and 7.52), the spec on the new one is 16.4 K.  The new one to me is a very 'closed' pickup and is a dark sound, whereas the old one is a really nice sounding pickup and works really well as a neck pickup with a PAF style neck pickup (I have it witk a 1990/91 Pearly Gates - with a PGNJ sticker).  I gave away the newer one (which was a 90's one), because I couldn't stand the sound of it.
So many pickups, so little time

MDV

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2009, 01:35:24 PM »
I still say it's all down to the guitars.

The JB will have been tested and specced up for guitars available in the early eighties.  Woods used and construction methods were different back then.

The HD was designed recently, using more recent guitars, hence it works well in new guitars.

The interesting test would be to put a brand new JB and HD into in both an eighties guitar and a new guitar.  If anyone has a new JB knocking about I wouldn't mind testing it back-to-back in my PRS McCarty with the current HD, and I can compare it with my 80s Ibanez RG (plus the old JB in my '87 Baretta)................

I dont know why youre stressing that the difference in JBs is new Vs old guitars.

At the risk of starting one of those lovely "Vintage" guitar divergences, youre suggesting a consistent difference in tone between old and new instruments leading to two families of sound....due to the guitar, not the pickups or the amps or the players, the guitar

I dont see how thats in the least a sensible position. All the old giutars I've played have sounded very comparable to all the new guitars, and I just cant see how it would come about. Have trees mutated that much in 30 years? Steels vibration transmision properties altered?

That is of course an argument from incredulity, so go ahead and tell us why old guitars Vs new guitars make the old JB sound different, and why they dont make all pickups sound different :)

I'd like to double-blind test this once and for all

No one gets to play the guitar, cos feel can give it away. Maybe blindfolded if they're the same model or old vs VOS. They listen to them, all playing the same thing through the same gear.

One batch of old guitars, one of new guitars. Same pickups and setup given to all guitars.

Group 1 - told rank the guitars, told nothing about the guitars. Control group.
Group 2 - told that some of the guitars are vintage, told which are vintage and told to rank the guitars
Group 3 - Told that some of the guitars are vintage, but lied to and told that the new guitars are the vintage ones
Group 4 - Asked to identify the vintage and the new guitars by sound alone.

I'll be your next PRS that the tests would show that the control showed no preference, those that are told that there are vintages in there like the vintages better and those that are asked to indefify which is which will do no better than chance.

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Twinfan

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2009, 03:25:40 PM »
I'm sure the luthiers on the forum can comment on the quality of wood available now compared to the volume of guitars produced and how that would affect things.  Maybe I'm wrong?

I think the comparison of old JB versus new JB in the same guitar would be the most interesting comparison...

MDV

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2009, 04:32:34 PM »
I'm sure the luthiers on the forum can comment on the quality of wood available now compared to the volume of guitars produced and how that would affect things.  Maybe I'm wrong?

I think the comparison of old JB versus new JB in the same guitar would be the most interesting comparison...

For thist specifically, yes, but of course.

I still want to do the sound Vs perception of vintage stuff. And everything else for that matter.

Afghan Dave

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2009, 11:22:03 PM »
I'm sure the luthiers on the forum can comment on the quality of wood available now compared to the volume of guitars produced and how that would affect things.  Maybe I'm wrong?

I think the comparison of old JB versus new JB in the same guitar would be the most interesting comparison...

For thist specifically, yes, but of course.

I still want to do the sound Vs perception of vintage stuff. And everything else for that matter.

You need to get out more and meet some chicks dude...

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syr2012

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2009, 11:43:29 PM »
Not to be all stodgy or anything, but I was wondering more about the qualities of the Holydiver. As darkbluemurder said, I did realize that the JB gets quite muddy and doesn't offer a crisp crunch - which is antithetical to my wants/needs. I want to know more about the split qualities of the HD. My guitar seems to eat highs and mids a little bit, so I'm glad I didn't shoot for the overwind. After several days of searching, I found a push-pull pot, I'm thinking about either wiring it as the volume or using the push-pull only, as I don't want another tone pot in my guitar, and the HD is probably my only pickup in that guitar. Has anyone tried 1 meg pots with the HD? What should I expect if I try it?
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Twinfan

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Re: Holydiver vs. JB?
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2009, 09:15:23 AM »
HD isn't big on high mid and top end crunch in my guitar.  It's more low mid growl.

Sounds like you want a Rebel Yell?