Miracle Man question

[studiojig]

Ordered and fitted a Miracle Man bridge with 10% over-winding. This was to help tame the brightness/harshness of the treble region (i.e. GBE strings). I LOVE everything about the MM pup save for that issue. I further added a 250K CTS audio taper volume pot to assist in treble reduction since the stock 300k wasn't quite enough. Oh, and this is in a 1988 Les Paul standard. It's wonderful in every way but without running a compressor between the guitar and amp the treble is still too much for my ears. Now, I realize the larger ceramic magnet and specific, increased treble/output winding are what comprises the MM tone, so it's part of the package when one chooses that pup. I'm just wondering about something -

Would a double row of screws achieve what I'm seeking better than just a 10% overwind?

[MDV]

No. That will increase the low end, but wont change the high end character.

[studiojig]

Ahh.. I see. Hmm... well, what to do. Guess the compressor becomes part of my setup then if I'm to remain with the MM (which again, I simply adore). Is there another BKP that encompasses a MM type tone/chunk/bottom end, etc.. without such pronounced highs? I have a ceramic Warpig and love it as well, though I need to change the vol pot from 300K to 500K and see if that brings out a bit more distinction. The 300k makes the c-pig sound like it has a blanket over the low end.

[MDV]

A 300 or 250k pot might do what you seek with the MM

Other than that....now this is just a madcap theory, but the MM get a lot of its high end definition from quite a large offset in the winds, so one coil has (I *THINK*) about 500 turns of asymmetry (I know its got some, and I seem to recall its about 500; among the most of any BK (all BK HBs have some offset)), and those turns act as single coil turns. You can hear a bit of singy-ness in its top end too. You could, maybe, just maybe, get one with a bit less offset - it would have the same low end, but the top wouldnt be as bright and cutting.

Just a theory. A talk-to-tim-in-case-I'm-being-silly theory.

A compressor wont change the high end voicing, just its level.

[studiojig]

Thanks MDV! As noted in my original post, I'm already using a 250K pot with the MM but it doesn't smooth the treble out nearly as much as I'd hoped. Using the compressor (a dbx 166XL btw) the highs aren't reduced or the voicing changed, but they definitely are fattened and smoothed out making them less harsh. Most importantly, it doesn't reduce or muddy or otherwise negatively affect the low end/bass. Almost ideal, but I'd like to achieve it without relying on the compressor.

At any rate, that's interesting info regarding winding offsets, and a good theory. I'll pose the question to Tim for his response. I'm hoping that a 500K+ vol pot for my c-pig will help it open up and get a bit more clarity in the low end. The 300k it's currently wired to is rather dulling. But, that's another pup and I'm guilty of thread-drifting my own post  by discussing it I suppose :-)

[MDV]

Pigs wired straight to jack are a force to be reconned with :twisted: (hint hint)

Hope the offset theory works out for you. If not, the best alternative pickup is probably the painkiller.

[studiojig]

I've seen a couple of posts regarding the painkiller... hmm, perhaps I should check out some clips. So, you believe it to be closest to a MM or at least what I've described as my desired tone?

[MDV]

Its not very close to the MM, but it is close to what you want.

[Crazy_Joe]

Painkiller is nothing like the Miracle Man.

[studiojig]

Painkiller is nothing like the Miracle Man.

Really? Clips I've heard suggest it's upper-mids focused with strong treble. Perhaps too harsh to my ears like the MM is (in the treble region, not the bass)?? How would you characterize the differences?

[the prince of shred]

PK : upper mid push, agressive ... real punchy...
MM: smooth midds , lower mid focus, emphasises highs n lows .....

(all from what ive read dont have the cash yet to indulge..)
someone else will help more ...

[studiojig]

PK : upper mid push, agressive ... real punchy...
MM: smooth midds , lower mid focus, emphasises highs n lows .....

(all from what ive read dont have the cash yet to indulge..)
someone else will help more ...

Well, I read/hear the same re: the PK, but of course have no experience with it. I do however, have the MM and can say your assessment is spot on. My only issue is that it emphasizes far too much of the highs for my tastes. Still need to run MDV's theory past Tim...

[the prince of shred]

u think those highs are accentuated by the guitar? what guitar it in, woods etc..? n yh always ask tim...
 how tight do you find the MM btw ?

[MDV]

Painkiller is nothing like the Miracle Man.

Really? Clips I've heard suggest it's upper-mids focused with strong treble. Perhaps too harsh to my ears like the MM is (in the treble region, not the bass)?? How would you characterize the differences?

The PK is a bit hotter, but a bit less compressed.

Its got a tighter low end, and its lows are more actual lows rather than low mids, whereas the MM has respectiable low end but gets lots of its thickness from a strong low mid. Not to say that the PK is ihn the least thin, thats crazy talk, but the low frequencies (like, sub 400Hz) have a different balance

Its got more mids and high mids, more grinds and cut in the mids and a similar amount of treble but it doesnt cut as much in the top end. The MM has a cutting, chimey (if under lower gain) high end that gets really crunchy really easily; the PKs top end is smoother but its mids have the cut, chime and grind.

Saying they're nothing alike is a bit silly, but they are quite disimlar. Most importantly, they are most similar in the low end (they the closest relations of each other, low end wise, in the range, IME), but differ mostly in the highs and mids