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Author Topic: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!  (Read 4839 times)

hunter

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Philly Q

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 03:23:08 PM »
And the plaintiff is Ronnie Montrose!

I feel a bit sorry for GM though, presumably he bought it in good faith and he's owned it for many years, whereas Ronnie only had it a few months.

This bit made me laugh:

"Those photographs show significant wear and tear damage to the '59 Gibson which substantiates a risk of future damage so long as the '59 Gibson remains in Mr Moore's possession."
 :lol:
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Antag

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2009, 03:23:44 PM »
So let me get this straight:
Montrose's rare Les Paul is stolen in 1972.
Gary Moore plays it worldwide for >30 years, during which time many thousands of photos are taken of it, appearing in hundreds of magazines (let alone the huge number of people that actually saw him play it?!!)
Yet it's taken until 2007 for Montrose to track it down?  Methinks he needs to hire better private investigators :roll:

Also, the LP he's talking about isn't the Les Paul that Peter Green once owned, had a major neck repair & was recently sold to a collector is it?  If so, surely Gary Moore can trace its ownership was back beyond '72 & tell Mr Montrose to sling his hook, plus the fact he doesn't even own it anymore :)
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hunter

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 03:26:47 PM »

"Those photographs show significant wear and tear damage to the '59 Gibson which substantiates a risk of future damage so long as the '59 Gibson remains in Mr Moore's possession."
 :lol:

This is probably a well placed lawyer statement, to justify urgency for the case and put pressure on the court proceedings. That's what I thought when I read it.
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Twinfan

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 03:38:07 PM »
It doesn't say how long GM has owned it, he may have had it a few years or a couple of decades.

If the theft was reported in '72, which it sounds like it was, and they can prove Gary has the guitar, he'll have to give it back I think.....

Philly Q

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 03:45:38 PM »
Also, the LP he's talking about isn't the Les Paul that Peter Green once owned, had a major neck repair & was recently sold to a collector is it?  If so, surely Gary Moore can trace its ownership was back beyond '72 & tell Mr Montrose to sling his hook, plus the fact he doesn't even own it anymore :)

I think he had two '59s, the Peter Green one (which he got in '72, so of course Peter owned it before that) and this one.  As far as I can remember from old interviews, it was cleaner-looking and much less faded than the PG guitar.
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Twinfan

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 04:19:45 PM »
The one they're in dispute over is "Stripe", which is a pretty guitar.  It may get ugly, as Gary is particularly fond of the tone of this one I think:




martinw

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 04:43:42 PM »
Not sure how this'll work, as the case has been filed in the US, and Gary resides in England.
It's not a criminal case either. He has no obligation to respond.

Is it not true that in English law, "good faith" means you can keep the goods, except for cars?
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Philly Q

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2009, 05:06:43 PM »
Where's Elliot?  He's our legal expert.
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WezV

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2009, 05:09:26 PM »
give him chance philly - its only been 2 hours!! :P

Twinfan

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2009, 05:45:16 PM »
I think the fact that Gary Moore tours and spends time in the US means they think they have a case.  Maybe, maybe not.....

hunter

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 07:17:36 PM »

This is a civil case, he is not accused of having broken the law.

However, I don't think he can enter the country unharmed if the trial states that he has to give the guitar back. I also don't think he would keep it - for PR reasons.

In Germany, civil cases between private individuals fall under the statue of limitations after 30 years, so I would think in that case Gary could keep it. But US law can be different, and I'm not a lawyer.
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Elliot

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 11:00:54 PM »
In English law Gary would probably be alright  - As a general rule stolen goods are recoverable by the original owner as sales of chattels (like guitars) are about the transfer of  title to the goods.  The claim is not in theft (which is branch of criminal law) but in conversion and trespass to goods. 

The bottom line is that a thief has no title to pass (he having never acquired a legitimate right to the goods) and therefore no can one derive 'title' from him to sell the goods.  The consequence is that the original owner retains title and so can call for the goods to be returned.  If you buy a stolen car or guitar, title doesn't pass to you, although you have a claim for your money back from the seller (if you can find him, that is!)

However,  if the purchaser (or a chain of purchasers before him) purchased the goods in good faith (meaning they had no knowledge that the goods purchased were stolen) and has had possession of the goods for in excess of 6 years (or can show a chain of good faith transactions for in excess of 6 years) without  a claim or notification from the original owner, then the original owner is barred by ss.2-4 of the Limitation Act 1980 from recovering the goods and his title is extinguished.

That's the law of England, but I have no idea about the law of California - As to American judgments - the English Courts may sometimes enforce them - but it is very complicated law.  The fact that Gary Moore lives in the UK, the remedies against him in California are punitive and that he has not submitted to the jurisdiction of the US court tends to mean that the UK won't allow the enforcement.  It may mean that Gary Moore won't be able to go to California though!

(sorry this is probably a bit heavy for a guitar board - and its all from memory, so it could contain errors)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 11:04:26 PM by Elliot »
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Matt77

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 11:39:35 PM »
I reckon Gary should just deck him

Twinfan

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Re: Check this out: court case against Gary Moore!
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2009, 12:07:22 AM »
I reckon Gary should just deck him

:lol:

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