Hi Fi/music player advice

[ToneMonkey]

I find the same.  I live in a tiny old house and I think that getting an awesome stereo or guitar set up would be a bit of a waste as at the minute one of my speakers in currently partially hidden by a sofa........ and I'm absolutely terrible on a guitar  :?

[MDV]

Rather than suggestions, general advice

Priority of gear, in my experience.
- Speakers are by far the most important thing (along with where you place them)
- Amp is next, with speaker-amp matching being a very big deal indeed
- Source is last - theres enough variation in them that you can have a source good enough that the rest of the setup doesnt do it justice, its probably most important to just not spend so much that you overshoot this point (and its kinda hard to judge that point).

I disagree. Source is always first in importance. There are ratios that should be observed, though. A $20k CD player into a $1k integrated amp is a total waste.

Thats true, but try a creek cd player through a creative amp and satelite speakers, then try an ipod through a NAD and good-speakers-of-your-choice.

Yeah, thats a wasted source in the first test and a wasted amp and speakers in the second, but on my journey to getting a few decent setups kicking round I've had lots of garbled pick n' mix setups with both good and shite stuff in them. Using everything from an MP3 player, standard PC speakers and amp to the arcam, RME, NAD, Rotel and adams I've found the same thing: if you have any given setup and only change one part changing the source makes the least difference, changing the speakers makes the most and the amp is intermediate. I'm afraid, no matter how much I respect your opinion (which I do; I know what you do for a living), a decree to the contrary wont change my experience (I should say "the results of these tests" really - I conducted it as an experiment, cotrolling all the other variables I could)

[Denim n Leather]

^ I agree. Room is important, and if you mix n match enough, you can cobble together a very good system on a great budget. We'll gonna have to agree to disagree there, and that's all good. I respect your smarts, due diligence, and don't feel that any of your advice has been bad.

However, I interpreted this thread to be, not about the nuts and bolts of hifi/playback but about a set it and forget it, new, system that won't break the bank or marriage license and still sound satisfying to a musician with a picky ear.

[Denim n Leather]

Oh -- almost forgot to add:

The REASON such rules of thumb about source, amp, etc etc being laid out in % and order of importance is to enable systems to be assembled in a reasonable amount of time. You can spend decades chasing after every conceivable combination, and after all is said and done, all the gear you like is discontinued, made into a horrible "Mk IV" version, and you've nothing but a lot of time wasted that could have (and SHOULD HAVE) been spent listening to music!

[gingataff]

I think Ben's suggested some good stuff (and mostly British too).

Don't be afraid to look for used gear, proper hi-fi users are far more geeky than your average guitar player so they tend to look after their stuff and only sell it when upgrading.

[gingataff]

I disagree. Source is always first in importance. There are ratios that should be observed, though. A $20k CD player into a $1k integrated amp is a total waste.

Like in the '70s when it was de rigueur to have a Linn Sondek and a Naim amp and then run it into any old pair of speakers that were lying around.   (Hmm... that's not so different from my vinyl set up... Doh!)

[Denim n Leather]

Well, in the '70s, Bose was considered cutting edge, and horns were the rage. Also, there was a much larger DIY spirit, and a lot of dudes built their own loudspeakers.

[MDV]

^ I agree. Room is important, and if you mix n match enough, you can cobble together a very good system on a great budget. We'll gonna have to agree to disagree there, and that's all good. I respect your smarts, due diligence, and don't feel that any of your advice has been bad.

However, I interpreted this thread to be, not about the nuts and bolts of hifi/playback but about a set it and forget it, new, system that won't break the bank or marriage license and still sound satisfying to a musician with a picky ear.

:drink:

I aint stating facts here, I know that, just 'this is what I think and why'.

As to recommendations - on a budget and bang for buck for me the watchword is Secondhand. Spend £200 on some 10 or 15 year old gear that was good at the time is the best way I know of to get some good sound that doesnt cost the earth.

[badgermark]

Guys this is fantastic. Don't bother with any more suggestions, just keep up the advice.

Ben I wasn't knocking your original suggestion, I just googled the stuff this morning and got a little overwhelmed. This is a whole new level of geekery, and I'm just dipping my toes right now.

I'm not much of an audiophile, this set up will be stuck into a living room and the music to be enjoyed, not so much 'appreciated' it that makes sense.

[_tom_]

For our living room at uni we have a cheap sony cd player/amp into Mordaunt Short MS25is (really cheap 2nd hand).

Coming from a non-audiophile (well to an extent) I think the speakers sound really good, as I said earlier the clarity over cheaper "hifi" is amazing. I dont think I'm going to bother checking out other amps for a more neutral sound, as it seems like a very slippery slope for your cash to fall down :P

edit - you may want to check out some of the package deals on Richer Sounds. I have no idea if they're any good though

http://www.richersounds.com/information/hifisystems

[HTH AMPS]

I initially thought "1k on a hi-fi, don't be daft".  However, totting up my current rig which is around 7+ years old (prices approx from memory)...

* Project Audio Turntable (£150)
* Denon amp (£200)
* Marantz CD (£100)
* Sony tape deck (£150)
* B&W speakers (£250)
* interconnects and speaker cable (£100)
TOTAL = £950 (might have been more)

[Denim n Leather]

Guys this is fantastic. Don't bother with any more suggestions, just keep up the advice.

Ben I wasn't knocking your original suggestion, I just googled the stuff this morning and got a little overwhelmed. This is a whole new level of geekery, and I'm just dipping my toes right now.

No offense taken! I didn't take it as you knocking my suggestions -- I'm very well accustomed to sticker shock. When people see one of my hifi systems at home, they usually react like this:

 PDT_030

As for advice ... how much time do you have lol? I can go on endlessly on this subject.

[badgermark]

Guys this is fantastic. Don't bother with any more suggestions, just keep up the advice.

Ben I wasn't knocking your original suggestion, I just googled the stuff this morning and got a little overwhelmed. This is a whole new level of geekery, and I'm just dipping my toes right now.

No offense taken! I didn't take it as you knocking my suggestions -- I'm very well accustomed to sticker shock. When people see one of my hifi systems at home, they usually react like this:

 PDT_030

As for advice ... how much time do you have lol? I can go on endlessly on this subject.

I have no idea a budget, basically after I get my last paycheck this month and after sorting rent and deposits and bills the left over is to furnish my new house. Doubt I'll be looking at over £300 (~$600) to start though, I think this will be a new obsession, building it up over time and constant upgrades. Holy cr@p what have i started?

[MDV]

FWIW I just swapped a couple of things round in my setups, and what a difference :D

Previous -
Living room, goes-where-it-can (astride the fireplace, using the big slab of marble as imrpov isolation)
Aiwa XC005
NADC352
B&W DM602

Studio PC, entertainment mode, 5.1 front left and right
Rotel RA312
Eltax liberty 5+

The arcam is also in there, lined into my RME and adams.

I thought I'd try the NAD with the eltaxes, since I just got them and I'm more fussed about the sound in there, where I do more listening AND pay more attention to it.

MUCH better. The lows are tighter, the stereo resolution is better, the sound is more dynamic, everything is more seperated and clear.

Tried the Arcam through it

It almost did it justice. The highs produced had the dynamics and clarity the arcam is capable of, the lows didnt have the depth and punch its capable of, the soundstage was a little shallow, but frequencies were seperated out nicely. It was, however, a better matchup than the arcam, nad and B&Ws, since the B&Ws are so brash and depthless they just cant take what the arcams giving

Speaking of which

The warmer, smoother, denser, sweeter sounding rotel works better with the b&ws than the NAD did. Its not so abrasive and inyourface, its fatter, its lost nothing in depth and seperation because the 602s dont have much to begin with, and its lost nothing in stereo seperation because the speakers are only three feet from each other anyway.

Now
XC005
Rotel RA312
B&W DM602 S2

Still more than good enough to sit around and read to, muck about in the kitchen (I'm not sure I can reasonably said to 'cook' anything - just mix things together and heat them up!), background for social etc

A 'new' good stereo
Arcam CD73
NADC352
Eltax Liberty 5+

Reasonably well set up, detailed, fun to listen to main stereo and still functions as front left and right for the 5.1 off an EMU1616M.

Win all round!

[HTH AMPS]

with £300 to spend on separates plus a turntable you're going to be very lucky indeed to get a setup for that.

I found that a really nice system can be had with the following kind of budget:

* £200 on speakers
* £200 on the amp
* £100 on the cd player
* £150 on a turntable
* £50 on speaker stands
*£100 on interconnects & speaker wire
TOTAL = £800.00 and thats really stripping it back.  Any less than that and I think you're wasting your money (imo).

Once you have cash available, go to a shop that will let you hook up various bits of gear and take along some CDs that you're very familiar with - you'll want to listen to the control in the bass end and how extended it is (for starters).  I like a bit of Primal Scream's Accelerator to test out seperates then something like Otis Blue or Lady Soul (Otis Redding and Aretha Franklin respectively) for quieter stuff to make sure the rig isn't too brash.