frets? Frets!

[Prawnik]

When I was waiting for my morning coffee to kick in, I got thinking....("oh no, not again!" the chorus roars)

If a guitar with stainless steel frets has a brighter, steelier tone than a guitar with traditional nickel frets, has anyone experimented to see what a guitar with smaller vintage-styled frets sounds like, as opposed to medium frets, jumbo frets, and so on?

Because the vibrating part of a fretted string makes direct contact with the fret, I would think that fret size and metal would make a huge difference in guitar tone.

So has anyone done such an experiment and what were the results?

[Ratrod]

You're over thinking things.

[Philly Q]

They undoubtedly do affect tone, but I think it's more to do with how they feel. 

I find small vintage-style Fender frets very "hard work", and the same to some extent with wide but very low frets.  With bigger frets it's easier to get a grip on the string and not feel like I'm fighting the guitar.  That makes me play better (albeit still very badly... ) so the effect on the tone is more significant than anything inherent in the fret itself.

I know that's not what you were talking about, you're thinking more of a scientific study..... I'll shut up.  :|

[WezV]

i think it really affects playability more than tone so that swhat i would base fret choice on - but the mass of the fret does certainly have a small affect on sound

there are a few systems around offering higher mass fretwire, bigger tangs or things like that and they generally claim to improve tone and sustain - but then so does everything marketed for guitar

[WezV]

found it, jonathan linked to this a while back - i think he was interested in trying the idea

http://www.jetfretz.com/

[Prawnik]

You're over thinking things.

Maybe, but isn't overthinking things what guitar geeks do? And I would think (there's that word again) that the frets would affect tone more than, some of the things we geeks obsess over, like fretboard materials.

After all, the string doesn't vibrate much at the point where it contacts the fretboard.

Interestingly, I am pretty much indifferent about the feel of fret sizes.

[WezV]

well if we want to worry about it - surely the effect of the fret will have a lot to do with the material it is joined to? 

to me fretboard choice is more important to the overall tone than fret choice

[Afghan Dave]

well if we want to worry about it - surely the effect of the fret will have a lot to do with the material it is joined to? 

to me fretboard choice is more important to the overall tone than fret choice

100% agree.

[Prawnik]

well if we want to worry about it - surely the effect of the fret will have a lot to do with the material it is joined to? 

to me fretboard choice is more important to the overall tone than fret choice

Doesn't make sense to me: the pickup picks up the vibration of the string. Objects which directly influence the vibrating part of the string (bridge, pick and frets) should have more influence than those things which are indirect contact (fretboard wood and others).

Of course, I may be full of it. That's why I asked if anyone had done an experiment.

[Will]

Surely it will have a similar effect to putting a larger / smaler bridge on the guitar, but the difference being about 1 gram or so. So not actually very noticable

I prefer the feel of wider frets, Feline's dunlop 6000s were very to play, whilst I still enjoy wide and low frets too.

[Philly Q]

well if we want to worry about it - surely the effect of the fret will have a lot to do with the material it is joined to? 

to me fretboard choice is more important to the overall tone than fret choice

Doesn't make sense to me: the pickup picks up the vibration of the string. Objects which directly influence the vibrating part of the string (bridge, pick and frets) should have more influence than those things which are indirect contact (fretboard wood and others).

Of course, I may be full of it. That's why I asked if anyone had done an experiment.

It seems to me the frets (and bridge) are just the means of transferring string vibrations into the neck and body.  If the frets and bridge aren't anchored to "something" resonant, then string vibrations will stop very rapidly and there's nothing for the pickups to pick up.

As an extreme example, suppose the fretboard was made of cork.  The notes would die almost instantly.

[FELINEGUITARS]

I think it all makes a difference
Big frets do affect tone for various reasons - the mass of the frets affects sustain, tall frets means that you make less contact with the fretboard which can mute tone a bit .
Play a scalloped fretboard and you will find big differences - the notes sing a bit more

[Prawnik]

As an extreme example, suppose the fretboard was made of cork.  The notes would die almost instantly.

You are probably right. Imagine the effect if the frets were strips of cork. I suspect the effect would be similar.

[CJ]

well if we want to worry about it - surely the effect of the fret will have a lot to do with the material it is joined to? 

to me fretboard choice is more important to the overall tone than fret choice

Doesn't make sense to me: the pickup picks up the vibration of the string. Objects which directly influence the vibrating part of the string (bridge, pick and frets) should have more influence than those things which are indirect contact (fretboard wood and others).

Of course, I may be full of it. That's why I asked if anyone had done an experiment.

but isn't that like saying that the body of the guitar also doesn't make a difference what it's made out of? since the strings only come in direct contact with the bridge? the wood is the big part, anything metal should just transfer the vibration into whatever it's touching.

but i don't really know much. listen to the luthiers in here.

[Bob Johnson]

In any given mix of components in a guitar almost anything you change will have an effect. The overall mass of a fret is not quite as important as the length and density of the path from the string to the fingerboard i.e. fret height, width and alloy mix.

Having said that a re-fretted neck may or may not have as good a path as the original frets because the slot width and engagement of the the fret (the slot is compromised by removing frets) may not be quite as good as the original setup; so it's possible to lose more than you might have hoped to gain by a re-fret.

Many Luthiers subscribe to the idea that on any re-fret the frets should be glued in; The Stewmac luthiers newsletters have highlighted a number of different ways of doing this all of which testify to a major improvement in tonal response with a glued fret.

It would be cool if some of the other luthiers who contribute could throw their thoughts in on this as it is an interesting and often overlooked subject.

Cheers,