Is £2000 for an amp "painfully expensive"?

[Twinfan]

I tried switching amps, and it just wasn't worth the hassle for me. I want a decent tone that I can control with the guitar and possibly a boost pedal of some sort (I even use patches on my modellors like this). Channel switching amps seemed like a brilliant idea until I tried them. In practice, they seemed to give me 2, or 3, "ok-but-no-cigar" sounds that always needed loads of @rsing about in sound-checks. The single channel route gave me a sh1thot basic tone I could use for 2-3 hours without getting bored/frustrated with it, leaving me free to perform.

I was the same as you Andy, but now I have my Martamp Orion I've been converted  :lol:

As with most guitar gear, you need to try the really good stuff.  If you've been used to £500 channel switching amps there's compromise there and it has an impact on the tone.  You should try a Bogner Shiva, or the new high end Hughes & Kettener stuff or even a Rivera  ;)

I set my Orion up to have:

* Clean channel set for 'just breaking up' Stones rhythm
* Gain channel set for 'rock rhythm' a la AC/DC

I then use a Tubescreamer type to boost either channel, plus I have the gain boost on the lead channel to use too.  Both channels on the amp are completely independent and can be set exactly how you want.  I can cover loads of tonal ground without having to have a Joe Bonamassa multiple amp rig......

[Ratrod]

+1 to JPF.

For me it's quite simple. The blonde bassman is my dream amp. I'd probably go for a reliable clone, namely the Gomez El Sonido. They can be had for around the €1500 mark, so it would be silly of me to pay more for any other amp.

However, if I had one, I'd probably still use my engl Classic Tube on most occasions. It has two switchable gain modes (wouldn't call them channels, I can make them sound identical without touching the EQ, only the gain knob) and master volume. It sounds more than decent without having to be ear bleeding loud.

[AndyR]

I was actually wondering that Dave - "try the really good stuff" - the switching amps I tried were years ago. I can only remember details of two:

One was a Laney AOR in the mid to late 80s - the "pro tube" range evolved into these. Really I wanted a second one of my trusty protub master volume beastie, but you couldn't get them. Someone was trying to sell me their AOR. It was fantastic in the bedroom, but in rehearsals and a couple of gigs it was not so good.

The other was some Marshall thing the other guitarist in a later band used in the late 90s. It was 2x12 combo, it was a grey/silvery sort of colour. I think it was "2" channels with some sort of boost that made a "third". We fought with it for ages, and eventually he got a sublime lead tone out of it (might have been his vibrato though!), but it just couldn't compete with the tones I was getting out of my trusty old Laney protube. Every single rehearsal/soundcheck there'd be a moment when he'd be sitting gazing enviously at it :lol:. When we recorded, the only reason he didn't use my amp was because we'd found the "sublime lead tone" by then...

But yeah, 20-odd years on... (I did drool a bit when you first started posting about the Orion).

Still, I don't need an amp at all at the moment... and I've already got three knocking about :lol:

[Twinfan]

Sounds like you were playing a Silver Jubilee Marshall?  I'd like to try one of those one day...

[AndyR]

Sounds like you were playing a Silver Jubilee Marshall?  I'd like to try one of those one day...

That's what I've been wondering in the last few years - but it didn't seem half as nice as the present day legends about them seem to suggest :lol:

He bought it new, I think. I suspect in the early/mid 90s. I only played through it a few times in rehearsals, while we were trying to sort out a tone for him, I certainly wouldn't have swapped it for mine... I suspect he's still got it, I'll see if I can track him down and ask him what it is/was.

[jpfamps]

For me it's quite simple. The blonde bassman is my dream amp. I'd probably go for a reliable clone, namely the Gomez El Sonido. They can be had for around the €1500 mark, so it would be silly of me to pay more for any other amp.

I wouldn't be worried about gigging a genuine Blonde Bassman. The Fender amps from that era are really well built and rarely go wrong once the caps have been sorted out. I know a couple of players who Blonde Bassmans as their main gigging amp with now problems.

The Blonde/Brown Tolex era of Fender amps seem to have fallen off the radar somewhat when compared with the Tweed and Blackface amps.

[nfe]

Furthermore, many bands hire backline, so they tend to use easily sourced amps, which is mainly Fender or Marshall. They also don't tend to use channel switching amps........

This is very true.

So far, with only one exception, every single band I have every dealt with who requires a hired backline asks for:

1x Mesa Dual/Triple Recifier OR Marshall JCM2000 OR Peavey 5150 w/1x 4x12.

And I don't mean they ask specifically for one of the three, I mean they ask for any one of those three, whichever is easiest, and almost never specifiy even brands of cabs. Sometimes they'll put "Of decent quality" behind the 4x12 and sometimes they ask for two 4x12s.

[Twinfan]

Is that in your "sub-genre of metal" experience though?

I can't see your average mainstream band requesting 5150s or rectumfryers!!!!  :lol:

[nfe]

Is that in your "sub-genre of metal" experience though?

I can't see your average mainstream band requesting 5150s or rectumfryers!!!!  :lol:

My own festival isn't just metal, and it covers a lot of ground within the metal spectrum. But that's experience from working with shops and hire companies that supply all the major venues in Scotland with gear for shows. My pal is Bryan Adams guitar tech for instance, and I know what he has in his own set up, but I know what he's happy to accept if his own rig isn't going to be there, and suffice to say, Cornish pedals and '59 AC30's aren't on his rider  Simply it's that if you're hiring gear, everywhere will have loads of 5150's, Rectos, JCM2000s, Twins and AC30s. So you're as well asking for those.

Generally, I was trying to illustrate that the guys playing to thousands of people touring the world will pretty much get on stage and get on with it, whereas the folks playing to fifty folk in the Red Lion are really, really specific about what they're using.

Now that's not to say there's anything wrong with that, just that the idea of expensive gear being "Pro" gear, often amuses me.

[Afghan Dave]

...... Generally, I was trying to illustrate that the guys playing to thousands of people touring the world will pretty much get on stage and get on with it, whereas the folks playing to fifty folk in the Red Lion are really, really specific about what they're using.

Now that's not to say there's anything wrong with that, just that the idea of expensive gear being "Pro" gear, often amuses me.

I claim no experience but that sounds the most believable scenario to me. Well observed.

[Lew]

I wonder why the majority of people seem to prefer single channel amps? I'm the same, the last switchers I had were a H@K Triamp and VHT Pitbull - fine amps but they don't hang around long as somethings fundamentally wrong with them and I'm not sure if I know what it is.

[Twinfan]

Probably because one channel is 'better' than the other and doesn't get used?  So people tend to specialise and get a 'nicer' single channel amp instead?

[Lew]

Yea, but, no, but... with the level of amps we're talking about, all channels ought to be equally good.

[AndyR]

I wonder why the majority of people seem to prefer single channel amps? I'm the same, the last switchers I had were a H@K Triamp and VHT Pitbull - fine amps but they don't hang around long as somethings fundamentally wrong with them and I'm not sure if I know what it is.

Now I've been using modellors in the safety of my living room for a few years, I think I know what it might be:

What we never-to-be-satisfied guitarists really want for, say, a three channel clean/crunch/lead set-up, is three separate amplifiers with their own dedicated pre-amp, EQ, and power stages, probably all going through the same set of speakers! :lol:

Back when I was trying switchable channel amps, there was always some sort of compromise with channels sharing bits - you get your lead sounding good and the crunch was mushy or the clean was yuk, or whatever... You could get fabulous sounds out of each channel, but at the expense of the other channels - you'd need to tweak a load of knobs everytime you switched, so the whole point of buying the thing went right out the window the minute you got your new toy in front of the band at a rehearsal! (who else has experience of bassists/drummers moaning or laughing at them on proud presentation of your new amp? :lol:)

Nowadays, I'm guessing some folks do make three completely separate amps in a box - but I'm also guessing a decent reliable one might cost a fair bit!!

I did wonder about rack mounting preamps and power amps etc... but I was way too poor for that at the time...

And when it comes down to it, I'm a bit of luddite blues/rocknroller... I do want more than just one big knob on the front/top/wherever saying "More!!", but I do feel most comfortable with the tried and tested Gain/Bass/Mid/Treble/Presence/Master configuration, no switches, extra gains, mid-boosts, sweeps, etc, etc...

So I always ended up back with my single channel amp in that config.

I'd set my guitar volume to 7, tone to 5ish, and then dial in my crunch tone on the amp at a volume that seemed to match the band/venue. Most of the time I'd also have a little stomp (the original Guvnor was the last thing I used) set to kick me over the top of the band when I wanted it, but even without that, those settings would usually give me clean/crunch/lead, all controllable from the guitar alone.

I think that once I'd learnt to control a single channel amp like that, and used it satisfyingly and reliably in front of people enough times, then all the "jack-of-all-trades" amps that I could actually afford seemed a lot less attractive...  :lol:

Do remember that, other than getting my amps out occassionally to see if they still work, I haven't tried an amplifier in over 10 years now though. Like I said earlier, if I was to gig again I'd want my old Laney serviced and that would be it... if that failed, I'd very likely be contacting one or all of the chaps on here to see what they could make me. I suspect my tastes in gain etc would actually bring me in under £2k at the moment!

[jpfamps]

I've always used single channel amps and so do most of the players I know.

I think that there are several reasons for this:

1) If you don't have much time to set up (think weddings!) then its quicker.

2) Most players over-estimate the number of sound they "need" live. You only really need a great "rhythm" sound and (if you play lead) a great lead sound, ie two sounds. The main reason for this is often the desire to try to recreate sounds heard on recordings, which lets face it are very carefully mixed and processed in the studio, often using very high end studio gear.

3) Most guitarist under-estimate the amount of sounds they can get from the kit they already have eg you have loads of sounds on a Les Paul just using the volume/tone knobs and pickup selections, and that's without coils tapping etc.

4) For really big shows most players use multiple amp set ups and will have dedicated amps for different sounds. These will often be switched by their tech, and the FOH engineer will ride the faders to balance the lead and rhythm volumes. Of course if your playing that size of venue the cost of the guitarists' amps is negligible (and tax deductible!!) in the scale of keeping the show on the road.

Personally, I've never felt a need for a channel switching amp and have always use the volume control on the guitar to adjust levels (although obviously this requires discipline.....). The KISS principle.

When I've played in more rock setting I augmented my setup with a distortion pedal and a wah-wah. I've also occasionally dabbled with a Fulltone Deja Vibe.