Is £2000 for an amp "painfully expensive"?

[AndyR]

Another class post jpf :D

Especially 3)

Obviously everyone can use their own kit how they like, and they play different stuff than I do, but whenever I read "I always set the tone on 10" etc, I always feel a little bit sad for what they might be missing from the kit they've already bought...

Some years back I got a couple of teenage guitarists into the controls on their guitars, they just didn't believe me, but I said "do it, turn the tone control to half, then set your amp up - come back to me in a few weeks and tell me what you've found..."

I even showed them what my amp sounded like if I turned the guitar tone up to 10 (not especially pretty but very "ok you're gonna die now" in a rock and roll sort of way)... and I explained it does get used in a gig, but only for those "special" moments :lol:

When they came back, one of them could see what I meant, but still preferred the "no fiddling" method. The other one came back as if it had been some sort of "road to damascus" moment for them :lol:

[Lew]

Great replies. I find changing between tones at the guitar end alot faster than finding the button to stand on and also some switchers have a 'pop' when changing channels. Are there no reasons from a building pov that tone would be different/better in a single chan amp then, or is it all in my head?

[HTH AMPS]

Most guitarist under-estimate the amount of sounds they can get from the kit they already have eg you have loads of sounds on a Les Paul just using the volume/tone knobs and pickup selections, and that's without coils tapping etc.

^ +1

Speaking as a Les Paul player, you can get much more range from them than most people ever give them credit for.  I'm a big fan of using the middle position for rhythm - set the bridge volume up full and the neck volume around halfway.  this knocks enough edge off so that when you flip to the bridge for solos it really cuts through.

For clean tones, I just roll the volumes back - simples.

[_tom_]

^Same here, I dont even have coil taps and get a load of good sounds from my LPs. I find them more versatile than strats actually, which doesnt seem to be the usual case.

[HTH AMPS]

The two volume/two tone plus 3-way toggle setup is exactly why I like my '72 Tele Custom.  By mixing the middle position you can get all sorts of tones.  This is one badass Tele   :D

[dave_mc]

i like single channel amps, and I like multi-channel amps. I think it depends on what type of music you play (there are very few single-channel high gainers, for example), how versatile you need it to be, whether or not you can afford/use different amps for different sounds, etc. etc. etc.

[hunter]

I've always used single channel amps and so do most of the players I know.

I think that there are several reasons for this:

1) If you don't have much time to set up (think weddings!) then its quicker.

2) Most players over-estimate the number of sound they "need" live. You only really need a great "rhythm" sound and (if you play lead) a great lead sound, ie two sounds. The main reason for this is often the desire to try to recreate sounds heard on recordings, which lets face it are very carefully mixed and processed in the studio, often using very high end studio gear.

3) Most guitarist under-estimate the amount of sounds they can get from the kit they already have eg you have loads of sounds on a Les Paul just using the volume/tone knobs and pickup selections, and that's without coils tapping etc.

4) For really big shows most players use multiple amp set ups and will have dedicated amps for different sounds. These will often be switched by their tech, and the FOH engineer will ride the faders to balance the lead and rhythm volumes. Of course if your playing that size of venue the cost of the guitarists' amps is negligible (and tax deductible!!) in the scale of keeping the show on the road.

Personally, I've never felt a need for a channel switching amp and have always use the volume control on the guitar to adjust levels (although obviously this requires discipline.....). The KISS principle.

When I've played in more rock setting I augmented my setup with a distortion pedal and a wah-wah. I've also occasionally dabbled with a Fulltone Deja Vibe.

I see and agree (hence why I asked you about that 1987 today :O)

I think there are probably two amps I would need, a Plexi and then something else for the brootalz, as I doubt that a Plexi can pull off convincing Rammstein tones. But for my top40 band a plexi style amp with 3-4 pedals would be perfect. The amp should deliver light breakup, so you can for example play the intro to Pink's Sober with it, and pedals would do the rest.

[Twinfan]

Yea, but, no, but... with the level of amps we're talking about, all channels ought to be equally good.

I agree, which is why I love my Orion  ;)

A clean-ish amp with pedals will get you there, I agree, but I prefer the FEEL of amp distortion/overdrive rather than pedals.  That feel is what inspires me, and makes me play better, thus providing a better performance for the gig-goer  :D

[Lew]

Yea, but, no, but... with the level of amps we're talking about, all channels ought to be equally good.

I agree, which is why I love my Orion  ;)

A clean-ish amp with pedals will get you there, I agree, but I prefer the FEEL of amp distortion/overdrive rather than pedals.  That feel is what inspires me, and makes me play better, thus providing a better performance for the gig-goer  :D

Yea, I rely on the amps gain too - pedals just aren't the same.

[dave_mc]

agreed about amp distortion. a slight boost can be ok, if it's being put over amp distortion, but a pedal over a clean channel (unless it's a pretty light overdrive, which can also be ok), not really a fan.

[Philly Q]

I like the way this thread has developed over the last couple of pages - good discussion guys, I wish I had something to add!  :D

[hunter]

agreed about amp distortion. a slight boost can be ok, if it's being put over amp distortion, but a pedal over a clean channel (unless it's a pretty light overdrive, which can also be ok), not really a fan.

I agree with that. But what is bugging me is that if you use the Amp's distortion (which I do on all my amps) you have to use the loop to get delays sounding right in overdrive (which I always do). If it's only light crunch on the amp and you kick it with a pedal, you can put the delay between drive and amp and it's fine (what most people do on 1Ch amps, like a Plexi).

Whenever I used loops, even the better ones (new gen. Shiva, the XTC which is switchable, the Einstein) then I can stillrecognise tone degradation. Must be a level thing mainly, as I think amp builders have to do a lot of attenuating down and amplifying up again before Send and after Return. This impacts the integrity of the signal flow (which is the biggest advantage of tube heads vs. tube racks.

There are hardly any amps that I've tried, where the signal stays as punchy, meaty and juicy on the drive channel with the loop in use. Maybe the Einstein was Ok, but the overall tone of that amp wasn't too much my thing anyways, a bit too much sound and not enough tone, if this is an expression that makes sense - just wasn't as lively or organic as some other amps I owned.

So that's why I think using a Plexi style amp on the verge of breakup together with a Wah, a Boost, an Overdrive and a Delay (+ maybe a Chorus/Trem or sth) could be the way to go. But it would need a PPIMV for me.

[Twinfan]

I hear what you're saying about loops Hunter.  I've got Martin working on a valve driven stand alone buffered loop for me at the moment which I'm hopping will not have the problems you're describing....

[Dmoney]

I hear what you're saying about loops Hunter.  I've got Martin working on a valve driven stand alone buffered loop for me at the moment which I'm hopping will not have the problems you're describing....

One criteria when i was looking for amps was to have no FX loop. to keep the signal flow basic and go straight from pre to power amp.
I realise the disadvantages with this, but i don't run too many effects so it doesnt matter. at most i run a wah, delay, and chorus in front of the amp and thats that. though im very careful about the sound when i DO run all those.

i've also started backing off my guitars volume a touch just to get a slightly more... percusive?... tone and to take out some top hi end. It works really well on both my soldano and uberschall.

the loop on the uberschall isnt something ive played with other than to use it as another volume control.
it tried putting my parababy wah in it and turning the channel level right down (to have the wah post-distortion) but this actually sounded aweful.

[Twinfan]

My Orion has a basic series effects loop as stock with a bypass switch  ;)

How do you get on with the delay into the front of a distorted amp?  I have a Carbon Copy and it sounds like ass into the lead channel!  :lol: