Is £2000 for an amp "painfully expensive"?

[Dmoney]

when i looked at the soldano i didn't want a switch in that place either. i wanted a super basic signal path that still gave me the tone i was after. Obviously the Uber is totally different.

i use a DD-3 or a Malekko 300. in front of the uber it just sounds drier, which is fine with me. I like a dry doubling effect thats really subtle. which is why i only use 300ms delay. in the loop the settings need to be altered to get the same effect. i wouldnt say one way sounds terrible, they just sound different. the malekko sounds EPIC in the loop, not as open up front.

When i use the chorus in front of the amp, i generally turn my volume down and clean up at the same time.

i want to try my dunlop wah in loop on the Uber and see what craziness that brings.

[Will]

My Carbon Copy oscillates like crazy if I have the preamp gain high on my 2203.

I prefer to set it to crunch and boost though, so its usually fine

[Dmoney]

My Carbon Copy oscillates like crazy if I have the preamp gain high on my 2203.

I prefer to set it to crunch and boost though, so its usually fine

i dont have any problems. like i said, it just sounds less pronounced when in front. which for me is fine.

[dave_mc]

I agree with that. But what is bugging me is that if you use the Amp's distortion (which I do on all my amps) you have to use the loop to get delays sounding right in overdrive (which I always do). If it's only light crunch on the amp and you kick it with a pedal, you can put the delay between drive and amp and it's fine (what most people do on 1Ch amps, like a Plexi).

Whenever I used loops, even the better ones (new gen. Shiva, the XTC which is switchable, the Einstein) then I can stillrecognise tone degradation. Must be a level thing mainly, as I think amp builders have to do a lot of attenuating down and amplifying up again before Send and after Return. This impacts the integrity of the signal flow (which is the biggest advantage of tube heads vs. tube racks.

There are hardly any amps that I've tried, where the signal stays as punchy, meaty and juicy on the drive channel with the loop in use. Maybe the Einstein was Ok, but the overall tone of that amp wasn't too much my thing anyways, a bit too much sound and not enough tone, if this is an expression that makes sense - just wasn't as lively or organic as some other amps I owned.

So that's why I think using a Plexi style amp on the verge of breakup together with a Wah, a Boost, an Overdrive and a Delay (+ maybe a Chorus/Trem or sth) could be the way to go. But it would need a PPIMV for me.

yeah, that's a good point. I don't really use effects all that much, so it's not really a major problem for me. Or at least, I'm using distortion/overdrive so much more (probably three quarters of the time) that I'm going to go for the better distortion. :)

another point i'd make about multi-channel amps is that it might be psychological, too. you kind of expect to get 3 amps (if the amp has 3 channels), and that's not really going to happen. If you get 3 good sounds (or one very good and 2 decent), you're doing well, kind of thing.

[Lew]

My Orion has a basic series effects loop as stock with a bypass switch  ;)

How do you get on with the delay into the front of a distorted amp?  I have a Carbon Copy and it sounds like ass into the lead channel!  :lol:

...loop stuff

Have a look at this http://www.suhrguitars.com/tonetools.aspx#minimix

[Twinfan]

Have a look at this http://www.suhrguitars.com/tonetools.aspx#minimix

That's OK if you have a level control on the pedals you're putting in the loop.  My chorus, for example, only has depth and rate so the level of control isn't as good.

Martin is cooking up something a bit more flexible and interesting  ;)

[Lew]

Please let us know more as soon as you can  8)

[Pete24v]

the guys on the Matamp forum need this FX loop answer too!

[jpfamps]

Interesting how this thread has rather moved towards another topic...

I'm sure my previous posts fx "loops" can be found out there in the ether, however for those who missed them.....

The main problem with fx "loops" are that they aren't loops; they are inserts, and are usually a gain structure disaster.

In pro audio environment (say in a mixing consul) you would only use gain control processing in an insert, ie compression, limiting etc.

On a mixing desk all other effects would be added by sending signal to an aux bus and remixing this with the original signal. This is the best way of adding effects to a signal.

Ideally you want a parallel loop, with adjustable send and return levels, and run the effects return with no dry signal ie 100% effected.

It is quite possible to design a parallel effects loops that adds only one very linear triode stage to the signal path (which can be unity gain) and works very well. Unfortunately this adds significantly to the cost of the loop, which I expect is the reason a lot of "loops" aren't.

Regardless, unless you feel you need to have control of your effects, in my opinion, better results are achieved by micing the amp and adding the effects via the PA.

[Twinfan]

Not everyone mics up though JPF - we backline so the PA route isn't an option.

Ideally you want a parallel loop, with adjustable send and return levels, and run the effects return with no dry signal ie 100% effected.

Indeed.  That's what I would need  ;)

[jpfamps]

Not everyone mics up though JPF - we backline so the PA route isn't an option.

Ideally you want a parallel loop, with adjustable send and return levels, and run the effects return with no dry signal ie 100% effected.

Indeed.  That's what I would need  ;)

Sure, a lot of bands don't mic the backline, thank goodness, many are too loud with out sound reinforcement!

However, there's nothing stopping you micing your amp and just using the PA for fx, although obviously this would depend on what fx you had/wanted, and what control you wanted over them, how many spare channels you have on your PA etc.

Parallel is the way to go though if you want the "no comprise" fx loop.

[nfe]

In my opinion, virtually all the bands wo aren't micing their backline, should be.

Use smaller amps, mic everything, and make use of your PA, if you do so and use a decent PA, then without exception, your band will sound better.

[Dmoney]

In my opinion, virtually all the bands wo aren't micing their backline, should be.

Use smaller amps, mic everything, and make use of your PA, if you do so and use a decent PA, then without exception, your band will sound better.

this depends on the PA or the venue though.
played to a hundred people in sweden last week and although the venue was small, we had 4x12's & heads, only the bass drum, snare, and vocs had mics. sometimes thats all you get. sometimes you get less, sometimes you can mic up everything.

[Twinfan]

Use smaller amps, mic everything, and make use of your PA, if you do so and use a decent PA, then without exception, your band will sound better.

But smaller amps don't sound the same.  I can't do a YC/DC? gig with an Epi valve junior.  Sorry.

I'm sure your metal guys won't switch away from Mesa and Matamps too?

[hunter]

Not everyone mics up though JPF - we backline so the PA route isn't an option.

Ideally you want a parallel loop, with adjustable send and return levels, and run the effects return with no dry signal ie 100% effected.

Indeed.  That's what I would need  ;)

... and gold relais switchable please.

Alternatively then the loop can also function as a lead boost.