Lisbon Treaty

[Dmoney]

you mean most of the public right?

[nfe]

Nah, a huge swathe of our public are pretty apathetic, but the majority are still switched on enough not to be wooed by a Nazi with a melty-face, regardless of how upset they might be with mainstream party politics.

The BNP recieved LESS votes than in previous elections when they gained their two MEPs.

[Will]

Not that relevant, but I was in Barnsley recently, and apparently 30% of people there vote, and 16% of people there vote BNP.

[Dmoney]

true.

i sometimes wonder though. i think there are apathetic people but I also think think there are a lot of idiots. I know where im from in Lancashire and surrounding areas (merseyside and manchester) there was a lot of dodgy talk between people you'd meet. same in the North East. My housemates boss is actually going to start voting BNP apparently BECAUSE of the questiontime debate... that blows my mind. I think the BNP are very calculating in who they target, and what facts they use in that process. migrant workers from within the european union taking british jobs for example. britain being run from brussels. loosing the £... blah blah blah. it all gets to some demographic. My housemate works for a transport for london road crew, and everyone he works with has right wing views of some degree. Apathy is almost more problematic than extreme right wing voters because those people are more likely to actually vote.

[nfe]

Apathy IS the biggest problem. Hell, how many folks actually know what the Lisbon treaty even is?

We should be like Australia and make it an offence not to vote in elections, but add a No Party vote. That'd get cats paying attention.

[Dmoney]

thats not a bad idea.

i get frustrated because the only reason i vote is so the BNP have to work a little harder. i don't have faith in anyone.
i don't feel like enough fuss is made about the lack of people that vote.

incidentally muse are on the BBC HD Preview.

[dave_mc]

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, Dave.

yeah, probably. same here. when you add up all the other gip which labour or the tories have been up to, this EU referendum is pretty far down the list...

We should be like Australia and make it an offence not to vote in elections, but add a No Party vote. That'd get cats paying attention.

disagree, i have the right not to vote if i so please. And if i hate all the parties sufficiently, i shouldn't be forced to go through the whole rigmarole you have to go through when you vote. at very least they'd need to make it a lot easier to vote, like let everyone have a postal vote or something like that.

My housemates boss is actually going to start voting BNP apparently BECAUSE of the questiontime debate... that blows my mind.

that does not surprise me in the slightest. Question time was a complete joke, and it makes you wonder if the real idiots are the people voting for the BNP, or the people who thought it'd be a good idea to let the BNP on QT, but then tag-team them for the whole show. :? talk about playing into their hands...

not to mention the hypocrisy of it. "oh, we can't trust the public not to see through the BNP, but of course we never take advantage of the misinformed public's votes..."

[nfe]

We should be like Australia and make it an offence not to vote in elections, but add a No Party vote. That'd get cats paying attention.

disagree, i have the right not to vote if i so please. And if i hate all the parties sufficiently, i shouldn't be forced to go through the whole rigmarole you have to go through when you vote. at very least they'd need to make it a lot easier to vote, like let everyone have a postal vote or something like that.

Oh absolutely, postage paid postal votes all round, that and a no party vote, then I really couldn't see how anyone could complain, and it would encourage huge swathes of people who don't give a hoot currently to get thinking.

We also need to have the vote at 16 or stop 16 and 17 year olds joining the forces (which is far preferable) as it's utterly obscene you can be sent to kill other kids who've never even shaved before you can vote on the government which sends you.

[dave_mc]

i dunno, i'd still have to get to the postbox... :lol: but yeah, if you could have some kind of easy method of voting (while meanwhile still minimising fraud), then that wouldn't be as big of a problem. and you'd definitely need a "no party" vote (i'd prefer the term, "you all suck" :D), as you can't be forced to legitimise someone you probably disagree with.

agreed about the army. I don't know about giving the votes to 16 year olds, but i agree about not joining the army. Or at very least (if they don't already; i haven't exactly ever looked into joining the army), once you hit 18 you're given the option to leave, no questions asked. because you can't sign a legally binding contract for anything else until you hit 18, as far as i'm aware. and it should be non-combat roles before 18 (though i suspect that's the case already).

[Ratrod]

Well, you Brits are not alone.

This stuff is happening all over Europe. Left wing f*cked up new right wing parties are formed and rising. Situations are remarkably similar. It's going on in Holland, Germany, Denmark, Belgium and Austria.

[Will]

NFE: about 16+ army - I think it would be a bad idea to stop them joining at that age, it must be useful for those who need an institution which may actually teach respect... I think that unless you specifically request to be deployed whilst under 18 you can, but its not normal. May be wrong on that one though.

I like the Australia idea, there is still the option of going to vote but 'spoiling' your ballot (well thats what I was taught in politics class :lol: ) but whether that will really get counted or not?

[dave_mc]

Well, you Brits are not alone.

This stuff is happening all over Europe. Left wing f*cked up new right wing parties are formed and rising. Situations are remarkably similar. It's going on in Holland, Germany, Denmark, Belgium and Austria.

yeah. i can't speak for anywhere else, but i know that here the problem is new labour. They figured the old labour was unelectable, so they made up this new labour guff, which seems to amount to (by and large) the worst parts of left wing politics combined with the worst parts of right wing. :lol:

I certainly don't want the bnp in. Heck, i don't even want the tories in, it amuses me when people (rightly) complain about new labour, then when given the choice want to vote for the tories, who'd be as bad if not worse, and are led by tony blair mark II.

i mean it's not like there's not a third party. The lib dems might suck too, but they seem to be the lesser of 3 evils.

[Philly Q]

i sometimes wonder though. i think there are apathetic people but I also think think there are a lot of idiots. I know where im from in Lancashire and surrounding areas (merseyside and manchester) there was a lot of dodgy talk between people you'd meet. same in the North East. My housemates boss is actually going to start voting BNP apparently BECAUSE of the questiontime debate... that blows my mind. I think the BNP are very calculating in who they target, and what facts they use in that process. migrant workers from within the european union taking british jobs for example. britain being run from brussels. loosing the £... blah blah blah. it all gets to some demographic. My housemate works for a transport for london road crew, and everyone he works with has right wing views of some degree. Apathy is almost more problematic than extreme right wing voters because those people are more likely to actually vote.

This is true.  I don't know anyone who actually says they'd vote BNP, but I'm amazed how many otherwise sensible, intelligent people of my own acquaintance are saying things like "well, I don't support the BNP of course, but some of what they say makes sense".  :?

And when they're debated on news websites, the vast majority of comments are pro BNP.  Of course there's the argument that rabid supporters are more likely to get off their arses and comment (the same argument that's used to "explain" their votes at elections).  But you'd think there'd be at least as many people strongly opposed to them.

I don't for a minute think the BNP will get into a position of real power, but I also think it's dangerous just to dismiss them.  We live in worrying times.  :|

[dave_mc]

i dunno. there was a pretty big protest at the bbc around question time. also i guess you could argue that anyone campaigning for a different political party is technically against the BNP, and most of the tories/labour/lib dems are going to be spending more time pushing their own candidate than doing down another. Maybe.

[maverickf1jockey]

If the BNP ever get into power I would gladly lead an exodus of all the rational people of Britain away as refugees (wouldn't be the first time my family was forced to leave by a nationalistic political power. The difference this time would be that I was doing it volunarily and without the naive expectation that we would they able to return after the violence died down. They were Germans Living in Yugoslavia at the time of the Nazi Invasion; few enough generations for the BNP's ridiculous policies to directly affect me personally.).