Anyway Scientists are for and against climate change.
Here's the Tony Robison Doc I mentioned earlier
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/man-on-earth/4od
how many scientists are for and against it? last time i checked, the vast majority are for it, though obviously they won't all agree 100%. you mentioned creationism earlier in the thread- it's a similar idea with the "scientists" they wheel out who supposedly don't believe in evolution.
It's been said before on this board but I'll say it again.
I have one live - only one and I'm living it. My way.
Morally and legally consuming what I need, want and can afford.
I will continue to do this until I find a BETTER way or until I die.
Then I shall pass the problem and the moral choice onto my children (should I have any).
oh, i agree wholeheartedly. Just, as i said earlier, there's a difference between disbelieving in climate change, and disagreeing with how to fight it.
Dave there's so much I've picked up in the last few years just on waste disposal that is so scary. We produce so much rubbish that we can't keep using landfills. That is being controlled by tax so aggressively that fly tipping is rife. So we will have to start burning it again, which will piss off more beards and sandals. Taxing somthing to try and control it isn't the answer, get to the root of problems. Packaging is one of them but its also a big buisness. (I know you said you didn't agree with taxation, I just mentioned it in general cos it pisses me off so much) That's just one thing and there are so many things that need action but its just not happening. I agree there is more we can do on a bigger scale to minimise and try and slow down our impact on the world.
Some scientists say we have caused global warming some say we haven't.
I've always been under the impression that the tech for engines to run on alternative fuels has been with us for decades but we never get them. Maybe The big Oil Companys do buy up the ideas and lock them away, who knows. Ultimately we rely so much on things that harm the world and its wildlife. We really need to stop breeding like bloody rabbits but people are not going to stop having children.
How long do you think we have left? I think around 200 years tops. :| Doomed! :lol:
can't argue with that (other than i have no idea how long we have left) :)
(a) This is the interesting one - how many companies have jumped on the Green band wagon for fear of losing sales by not being perceived as being environmentally friendly? It bugs the hell out of me to see car companies and airlines claiming to be 'Green' - sure, you can be less polluting than you were, but they are a long way from being environmentally friendly, however you look at it.
(b) On the scientific stuff - problem is that we don't have any accurate data which goes back far enough to draw any logical conclusions - and you don't want to be an enviro-sceptical boffin, because you will get your funding withdrawn from the government who is busy collecting green taxes. My conclusions are pretty much with Johnny Mac:
(a) agreed.
(b) i don't think that's how funding works. Also, think of all the famous scientists you can name. Odds are most of them were involved in a massive paradigm shift, or new invention/discovery (which probably laid waste to existing theory). As i've said before, if you were to conclusively prove global warming wrong (and i mean "conclusively", not this muddying the waters type of prove which is typical of quacks, charlatans and company lackeys), you wouldn't lose your funding, you'd win the fricking nobel prize.
I doubt the government is getting that many green taxes. Sure, it helps, and I agree that it's a handy way to get a little extra, but it's not going to be the end of the world if they don't get it. And if the govts are so keen on climate change, how come they go out of their way not to come to any agreement on reducing emissions? Could it have anything to do with the fact that capitalism, and, as a result, their economies would completely collapse if we did what we probably have to do to fight climate change properly? In fact, several of the highest climate change scientists said copenhagen was a joke, i don't see how that puts them in the governments' pockets. if anything, they're a thorn in the governments' sides.
quote:"(a) it'd definitely stop the harm we're doing. it probably would help, yeah, if it were done right."
CO2 does no harm. It's what makes plants grow. The atmosphere used to contain 3 times as much. Must have been those dinosaurs driving their Humvees.
Quote: "(b) of course. but the climate change scientists seem to think what's happening at the moment is mainly caused by us.
also, these scientists probably aren't in friends of the earth. neither am i."
Those so called scientists manipulated their data. It's fraud. Scientific value of that data is 0.0. They're not friends of the Earth. They're friends of money.
Like I said earlier, google for climategate.
Always ask yourself this when reading about some 'scientific' report: Who ordered it and who benifits from it financially? In other words: Follow the money.
(a) that is specious logic. Just because the plants take in CO2 doesn't mean it can't do harm in other places. As i said already, the fact there's any oxygen in the atmosphere is a result of photosynthesis over millions of years.
(b) i should really read all those emails etc., but what i got out of what little I saw of them, there wasn't all that much manipulation at all, and a lot of the words and phrases being used were science terms which mean completely different things when used in science. It also doesn't mean for sure that the value is 0.0 (what the heck does that mean?)- it would depend on the amount of manipulation, etc. etc. Every science experiement/study/whatever is flawed to some degree. It doesn't mean we chuck it all out.
I have followed the money. It seems extremely simple to me. If you can explain to me how the entire world can make more money out of climate change politics, with all the uprooting and rebuilding of infrastructure that'd entail, not to mention selling and consuming much less stuff, I'd love to hear it.
