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Author Topic: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?  (Read 8650 times)

JakeAC5253

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2010, 03:19:30 AM »
Awesome, I'll look into the Warpig then, seems to be the general consensus.

THREADJACK!

I just had an awesome idea.  Get a baritone scale 6 string... Mahogany arch top body, maple neck and it's 27" scale, so it'll have a deeper tonality.  I've been chasing a baritone scale 7 for a while, but I think a 6 is a better idea for me personally.  This just seems like much more guitar than what I've got going on now and I am thinking I will save my money and put some BKP's in that instead.  Seems much more worthy of the investment.

http://www.rondomusic.com/product2857.html

What do you think?  What's a good set for that guitar?  (I haven't given up on your older advice, and thanks for hanging in there everyone, the advice is greatly appreciated)

MDV

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2010, 03:45:47 AM »
The recommendations dont change that much unless youre going over 27" and then its wise to have a lower output pickup to stop it, as tim says "sounding like a bass through a cheap distortion pedal".

Thats a $%&#ing sweet looking guitar, btw, in spec and asthetics. I havent felt guitar gas in about a year now....

JakeAC5253

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2010, 04:06:48 AM »
I know isn't it!  This site has a lot of really nice guitars, 6, 7, and 8 strings of basically all body styles to choose from and they are all cheap, I love it.  I thought that maybe since the tonewood and construction of the body has changed (from bright and spanky Poplar with body cavities to solid Mahogany) that it might affect pickup choice.

MDV

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2010, 04:36:28 AM »
No no no

Maple through neck

Now, lets assume its a good piece of maple. Its gonna have a prominent top end, but maple has an understated but superbly tight low end and chimey mid too, and its very stiff wood, it transmits all frequencies pretty well, and through necks all things being equal allow more low modes in the sound (or them to be stronger, rather), add to that the fact that you'll likely be forced to use thinner strings which will have more high modes and you probably have a guitar thats gonna have a deep but not prominent low end and lots of attack and definition.

The wings are mahogany. Wings on a through neck have a slight effect. Theres a common wisdom, which is really just a widespread assumption based on the fact that the most wood is in there, that the body wood has a dominant effect on tone - no. What matters most is whats in the course of the vibration of the strings, i.e. whats right under the strings, wood wise and structurally. The rest just adds some colour, and in a bolt on or set neck the most important thing is usually the neck -  thats what has the single biggest effect, through resonant feedback, on how the strings vibrate, and so what the pickups hear. A set neck or bolt on that is very well made will behave similarly to a though, but most of the time theres a degree of decoupling between the neck and body (in a bolt on) or a degree of dampening from glue. In a through neck the neck dominates, and this neck is maple, but on the other hand, its a through neck, so theres no decoupling or dampening between the neck and body so youre going to hear stronger low modes that you normally would in a bolt on maple neck, for example.

Que the boards luthiers (save one, I'm certain, whom I learned this from (mostly, the rest being my own experimentation and physicsy sense)) disagreeing with me :lol:
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 04:43:17 AM by MDV »

dheim

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2010, 11:39:13 AM »
It's really a nice guitar, but I hate maple fingerboards...
Mule, MQ, Stockholm, CS, RY, MM, PK, ANB, CNB, AWP, CWP, PiG90...

too many? ;)

JakeAC5253

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2010, 01:50:17 PM »
It's really a nice guitar, but I hate maple fingerboards...

Is it because they have that finish on them?

Madsakre

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2010, 03:34:12 PM »
All i can say is that i used to love the invader too, but in my case, it had a bit of a dead mid spectrum.

My C-Pig is my fav pickup. I use 40% less gain on my amp when i use it compared to when i use emg equipped guitars.
It has the most amazing grind you'll ever find. It has all the clarity needed, it just packed with a LOT of punch.
Your music will never be as hard as this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfFrqhJwbhE
Cattlepress

Roobubba

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2010, 04:10:17 PM »
I have a fanned fret 26.5-28" (treble - bass respectively) 6-string baritone with 14-68 (soon to be up to about 70 from newtone) strings.
See This Thread for details.

In that, I have a black dog (lower output pickup), and what comes out sounds like this:

www.myspace.com/13gauge

Hope this helps :)

Roo

JakeAC5253

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2010, 04:09:25 AM »
You know, I'm looking at the Warpig Stats and I don't think I've ever seen an output that high.  22k, why do you even need a gain knob?  That's absolutely insane dudes.  And the Ceramic's stats are identical?  Because the stats page makes it seem like it only comes with Alnico 5.  What value pots should you run a Warpig with?  500k, 1M, or 2M?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 04:30:13 AM by JakeAC5253 »

Nolly

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2010, 04:51:03 AM »
Well, DC resistance alone doesn't give you the full picture of a pickup's output. The 'pigs are certainly very hot, but I think you will be shocked at just how clear and defined they are. The ceramic version is not an official model but it is a very common customisation; just write that you want a ceramic magnet in the note box when you're ordering. I think the ceramic magnet version will have a very slightly lower DC resistance, but will be noticeably hotter.
As for pots, 500k should be fine. Tim has some excellent 550K CTS pots in as well as a stock of NOS Russian military caps.. Might be worth grabbing when you order the pickup if you need them.

JakeAC5253

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2010, 05:20:10 AM »
Well, DC resistance alone doesn't give you the full picture of a pickup's output.

Resistance tells you nothing about tone, but sheer output yes.  The resistance is directly proportional (think equal and opposite forces) to the actual voltage that the pickup puts out.  I understand that they're not mirror values, but inversely related as resistance is a matter of kOhms and actual output is a matter of millivolts most of the time.  Where the pickup resonates is also a good stat to look at.  At least that's my understanding.  If you have a deeper understanding I'd love to learn more.

Clarity is good!  I like clarity.  I really hate when I dig into a guitar and all I hear is mud.  It's almost as annoying as when you dig into a guitar and feel no power from it.  I think that MDV put it perfectly when he said "deep low end that isn't prominent or overpowering"  I just want the sound to be powerful without sounding hyped at all.  I'm getting pretty excited about this.  Too bad it'll have to wait until next year :\
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 05:41:04 AM by JakeAC5253 »

Zaned

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2010, 06:39:09 AM »
Awesome, a friend of mine has a Savage that he's going to let go of second hand.  I might pick that up.

So again, why does no one like the Cold Sweat bridge humbucker?  I'm not being thickheaded, no one's really made much of a case against it though.

There's a lot of love for the CS here ;) I own one, but wouldn't put it in the guitar that was on the starter post. It's a bright pickup and usually at it's best in warm sounding guitars. Like on the guitar I have it (PRS McCarty).

About the DC resistance..there's more to the output than just that. The magnet and the wire used have an effect. But I'll shut up about this as I have no expertise on that subject.

BUT, I do own an ENGL Blackmore (based on the ENGL Savage), and I use it with Celestion Vintage 30's (ENGL's own cab). I love it, so don't rule the V30's out. There are cabs and then there are other cabs; they have different frequency responses and sound different. I've tried my ENGL briefly with a MESA rectifier cabinet too (V30's), and it also sounded good, although different.

-Zaned
Paths are for followers.

ericsabbath

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2010, 07:21:04 AM »
in my experience, the alnico warpig isn't that high output
the high dc seems to affect a lot the midrange compression, but not really the output
the nailbomb is 16k and it's just as high output, although it's a lot less compressed
the holy diver is 16k, more middy and full than the nailbomb, but no near as hot
most BKPs in general aren't as high output as other brands "equivalent" models
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Excruciator

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2010, 08:29:30 AM »
The high DC resistance value on the Warpig is due to the gauge of wire it's wound with. The contemporary line of BKP's use one of three different wire gauges to my knowledge, thin, thinner and much thinner  :D - the Warpig happens to be in the much thinner category (along with the Miracle Man). The DC resistance of a pickup can be high due to a number of factors, most notably the amount of turns and the thickness of the wire. Thinner wire will produce a higher dc resistance per turn of wire than a thicker equivalent. That's why the Nailbomb and the Holy Diver both have the same ballpark resistance, but the Nailbomb is actually wound hotter - it uses a thicker gauge of wire. It also influences the tone of course, thinner wire usually having a more compressed, middier tone.

Having got that out of the way, as a recovering Invader user and current C- Pig abuser myself, you'd be very happy with a C-Pig in your guitar in my opinion, it fits a similar tonal niche, but in a much superior form. The bottom end is tighter, it has far more clarity, the harmonics aren't confused/odd sounding and your polepieces aren't liable to fall out (true story).

dheim

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Re: Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2010, 04:50:21 PM »
in my experience, the alnico warpig isn't that high output

it seems pretty hot to my ears! ;)
Mule, MQ, Stockholm, CS, RY, MM, PK, ANB, CNB, AWP, CWP, PiG90...

too many? ;)