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Author Topic: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?  (Read 31841 times)

ShredHeadJHJ

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Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« on: December 06, 2010, 03:58:31 AM »
Didn't think this would fit in the tech section, as that's all about pups it seems...

...

Great guitar BTW!!! A proper NGD will come when I get everything set up to 100%, but I just got a shiteload of gear!! Still need some help geting everything 100% proper.


Anyways, I bought a really nice used YJM Strat. The set up was shite when I got it, and the bridge was flush to the body. I was getting buzz in a few places on the neck, but mainly when I would do really really wide bends high on the neck, mostly on the B and High-E strings.

Took it to a tech. I had the guitar set up for Eb and 8-48 gauge strings (Dean Markley Yngwie Strings - his actual gauges). He raised the bridge about an 1/8th of an inch of the body to give me some very slight play in the trem arm for vibrato. He got rid of the buzz on the Low-E, but still fretting out on bends in some places high on the neck on the B and High-E strings.

He checked my frets, and they were completely level. He believes that the problem lies in the neck radius. He claimed that he believes that if he files the frets ever so slightly starting at the 12th fret and working his way "up" at an angle, he can get rid of that fretting out on the high strings high on the neck. Note that I don't start to fret out until I start to bend close to the 2 whole step up range. Any ideas on how I can get this guitar a proper set up without filing into already clean and level frets???

As many of you probably already know, the High and Low E strings sit EXTREMELY close to the edge of the fertboard on this guitar. The High E is a bit of a problem... I heard that this can be remedied by changing out the bridge, and I've heard that a Callahan Bridge works well for these guitars... What do you guys think? Is there a better bridge I can used as opposed to a Callahan? I'm also thinking about changing the tuners out to locking tuners... Any recommendations on a brand that would work well, and keep the same look of the guitar? I want to preserve the tone as much as possible, but anything that might improve on the tone is welcome... I just hear horror stories about guys sucking a godly amount of tone by changing tuners, and I don't know just how much I should buy into it...

I'm verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry loooooooosely considering mayyyyybe getting rid of the tone controls altogether and moving the volume all the way to where the bottom tone control is at... The problem actually is not the volume control - surprisingly - but it's the pickup toggle switch when it's on the neck pup. I find that I am having to actually "think" to keep from hitting the toggle switch when the neck pickup is engaged = not good. It's something that I will probably adjust to alright, but if the volume control is totally out of the way it would help greatly, I believe. It also would maybe help with the tone, and I know that Yngwie bypasses his tone controls as well. The only problem with that is that I will not be able to do the Yngwie-esque volume swells (I don't actually know how to use the volume control like this, but I may want to learn). Right now, it seems the good outweigh the bad at the moment as far as ditching those controls. They also seem like SUPER cheap controls. All 3 of the controls feels different on this guitar, lololol!

Anyways, I need some serious direction here guys. Help!

gordiji

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2010, 09:15:32 AM »
8-48 strings in Eb, wtf, that top e must flap about a tad, still if that's what the master uses!

Zaned

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2010, 09:46:51 AM »
If it doesn't buzz, but frets out on bends..my bet is that the radius of the fretboard is the reason. Yngwie has his action set very HIGH, so he most probably doesn't have this problem.

Easiest fix: raise the action. Most difficult fix: changing the radius of the fretboard. I would do the former  :)

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Twinfan

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 09:54:52 AM »
Losing fret height isn't going help the fretting out issue is it?  Is your tech a good one?

I think I'd be investing in a full re-fret with some nice tall fretwire.  That will counteract the curved radius of the fingerboard and give the impression of a flatter radius.

Philly Q

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 10:42:24 AM »
Losing fret height isn't going help the fretting out issue is it?  Is your tech a good one?

I think he's probably talking about slightly levelling the middle part of the frets only - effectively creating a gentle compound radius without re-radiusing the board itself.

As for the bridge and tuners - I'm assuming it's vintage-style hardware?  The Callaham bridge is a good choice, they make one with vintage spacing for the mounting screws, but narrower saddle spacing (about 52-53mm), which will give you your E strings back!  For the tuners, Gotoh SD91-MG Kluson-lookalike locking tuners are great.

http://audiozone.dk/index-filer/gotoh.htm
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FELINEGUITARS

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 11:52:53 AM »
The tight vintage radius is the culprit here as far as the fretting out goes
I would fret dress the neck and add some degree of compound radiusing at the top end - specifically along the line of where the high E string is
This may be what your tech was speaking of - filing in such a way as to allow the high E not to choke when being bent

Even if the neck were refretted the same compound radiusing would be required

If you were local to myself I would be happy to assist , although I suspect that your tech is talking along the same lines
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Matt77

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 02:02:20 PM »
Losing fret height isn't going help the fretting out issue is it?  Is your tech a good one?

I think I'd be investing in a full re-fret with some nice tall fretwire.  That will counteract the curved radius of the fingerboard and give the impression of a flatter radius.

Do you mean railway tracks?
They come with Dunlop 6000 already Dave.  :)

FELINEGUITARS

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2010, 03:06:36 PM »

I think I'd be investing in a full re-fret with some nice tall fretwire.  That will counteract the curved radius of the fingerboard and give the impression of a flatter radius.

Even if this strat only had vintage wire (about 0.040 tall) and you swapped it for tall wire - (maybe 0.060" tall) you are only adding 20thou and that wont change the radius more than the 0.020- which would take it from 9.50" to 9.52"

You would still need to add compound radius to the wire itself - not difficult if you know how to do it, but a change of wire alone wont do it.

EDIT - radii changed to reflect Zaned's info on the Malmsteen specs, but the point remains the same
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 07:36:31 PM by FELINEGUITARS »
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Zaned

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2010, 05:50:32 PM »
I checked from Fender's website..and the radius of the Malmsteen model is 9.5 inches. I don't know whether Malmsteen himself has had the radius of his old strats modified to that 9.5 inches. Wouldn't surprise me though, as the fretboards are scalloped on almost all of his guitars :) Modifying the radius wouldn't much more work.

Still, with action set as high as he has it, I doubt that the vintage radius would fret out..

-Zaned

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ShredHeadJHJ

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2010, 09:46:35 PM »
I think he's probably talking about slightly levelling the middle part of the frets only - effectively creating a gentle compound radius without re-radiusing the board itself.

As for the bridge and tuners - I'm assuming it's vintage-style hardware?  The Callaham bridge is a good choice, they make one with vintage spacing for the mounting screws, but narrower saddle spacing (about 52-53mm), which will give you your E strings back!  For the tuners, Gotoh SD91-MG Kluson-lookalike locking tuners are great.

http://audiozone.dk/index-filer/gotoh.htm

I will be buying a Callaham Bridge very soon. I also would like to replace the stock tuners. That would be awesome. Do you know a good "cheap"(est) site I can buy the bridge from?? Don't I have to buy the trem block separate??

I called Fender today. They said I can use the Gotoh Vintage tuners, but I will have to alter the hole slightly under the tuners. The good thing is that I will still be able to put the old tuners back in (just if I ever want to sell - only reason).

But yeah, some good American sites to buy this bridge, block, and tuner would help if anyone knows a good one.

Philly Q

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 10:05:48 PM »
Are you in the USA?  It's probably easiest to buy from Callaham direct, I don't know if they use other distributors.  In the UK you can buy from Charlie Chandler's Guitar Experience.

You don't have to buy the block separately, you can buy the trem as a complete unit with springs, spring claw and arm included.  It's the "Callaham V/N Model" (I have the same one, but - as usual - I haven't actually fitted it to a guitar yet  :oops: ).

http://www.callahamguitars.com/partsstr.htm

Quote
V/N Model: This is a complete assembly that has vintage 2 7/32 (56mm) mounting spacing but with the narrow 2 1/16 string spacing. It will fit any body with vintage mounting. It is specifically for those who have the E strings too close to the edge of the fretboard or use humbucking pickups. Your strings will now be better positioned on the neck and line up over the poles of humbucking pickups.
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Philly Q

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2010, 10:13:51 PM »
Regarding the Gotoh locking vintage tuners:  they will fit directly into the Fender bushings, so you don't need to remove them if you don't want to.  However, the bushings supplied by Gotoh have a slightly smaller internal diameter so the tuner posts fit more snugly.  I prefer to swap them over.

I can't recommend any particular supplier, but I usually buy tuners on eBay.  Most of the big dealers are in the US but even with the shipping charges it's a bit cheaper than buying from UK dealers!
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ShredHeadJHJ

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 02:10:55 AM »
I got the tuners!!! I paid about $60 for the tuners, and $10 for shipping. Good price, considering that others wanted $80 before shipping.

I found a good place to get the bridge at tomorrow:

http://www.specialtyguitars.com/callaham-strat.html

Now I just need to figure out if it's worth it to put better quality electronics in the guitar...? These pots, and even the toggle switch feel like cr@pola.

ShredHeadJHJ

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2010, 04:03:28 AM »
Cheesey shitety picture of me with the YJM taken at my friend's on her shitety cam phone:



Getting some really REALLY great sounds out of this thing. The action is feeling great, and I think the guitar settled into the set up a bit because it's not fretting out on high bends as badly as it was, but it's definitely still fretting out.

I ordered the Gotoh Vintage Oval Style Tuners for it yesterday. I'm going to Order a Callaham Vintage Narrow Bridge for it tomorrow. When I take it to have it hooked up, I'm going to remove the tone pots, move the volume down to the lowest pot, and replace the reamaining volume and 3-way switch with better components, as they do feel cheap and clanky. To make a long story short it will be EPIC WIN!!!

ShredHeadJHJ

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Re: Proper set up for Yngwie Strat...?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2010, 04:01:06 AM »
Someone posted this at the Petrucci Forum. Very cool info, I thought. This info came from a guy a guy who was Yngwie's Tech/Manager.

Quote
COMPREHENSIVE "YNGWIE-TONE" & EQUIPMENT SET-UP OVERVIEW INFORMATION:

The speakers Yngwie uses are Celestion G12T-75
Many published sources wrongly claim he uses Greenbacks or 30 watt speakers but that is not the case. He dislikes speaker distortion as he needs a tight response for quick picking and thus uses the 300w cabs on a 50 watt amp head.

I know because I got Yngwie his CELESTION endorsement deal when we had to re-fit several of his old speaker cabs.
When we took them apart...... Poof..... 75 watters.

Typical Amp Settings
NOTE:
These vary slightly based on specific amp
Presence =4-6
Bass =4-5
Mid= 4-6
Treble =6-7
Always add Hall Reverb around 1.7-2.9 seconds depending on song tempo

ADD EQ for guitar at mixing console as follows........
160 Hz and below shelving +3db
180 Hz Parametric +5-6 db
1.6K Parametric +1 db
4.7K and above shelving +3 db

When listening to your amp be sure you are at least 15-20 feet away MINIMUM and NOT directly in front of it.
Be off to one side to avoid hearing an exagerrated high end harshness that will fool you into boosting bass too much and cutting high end to try and "smooth" out or "warm up" sound.


Strings:
8-46 guage

To adjust guitar you should have a small ruler and a capo (to clamp 1st fret).

1) With no Capo installed, tune guitar to playing pitch and adjust springs (3 of them) so back of tremolo is 1/8" off body.

2) Now install Capo at 1st fret.

3) Adjust string height so the HEIGHT OF STRING ABOVE THE FRET AT THE 17th FRET is 1/16" (4/64") for the High e string, b string, g string.
d string should be just barely over the 1/16" (by a smidge).
The A and low E string must be slightly more than 1/16' (4/64") and can be as much as 2.0 mm (5/64").
NOTE: 2.0 mm is just a bit more than 1/16"

4) Check Tuning

5) With Capo still at First fret, depress the last fret where neck meets body (around 19-20th fret)
And with a feeler guage, measure either the A or D string gap between string and fret at the 8th fret position.
There should be some slight relief (gap) of about 0.010 "¬
NOTE: This is about the thickness of a Fender Thin guitar pick or Deluxe Business Card.

Many guitars have a rattle and buzz problem because of no relief.
You will quickly see this problem if when you do this test, the strings are literally touching the fret at fret# 8 during this test.

If needed, adjust truss rod to get that 0.010" relief.

6) Check Tuning

7) Now with all the above settings correct and the capo removed and no strings being pressed down.
Lay the guitar down on it's back.
Measure string height at the 12 fret.
The top 4 strings should be 1/16" and the A and low E should be between 1/16" and 2.0 mm.

8) If everything was done right, this guitar should be now set up to the same specs Yngwie plays with.
Thru an amp you will hear no fret rattle or buzz.
When playing unplugged, only a hard picking should cause a small but acceptable amount of fret noise in the middle 4th-11th fret region of the neck due to string vibration

9) PICKUP HEIGHT
Depress high e & Low E string at last Fret on highest fret on the neck...
Measure distance from string to Pole piece of pickup

NECK PU¬ ¬ ¬ (treble side = 1.0mm) (bass side= 1.0mm)
BRIDGE PU¬ (treble side = 0.5 mm) (bass side = 2.0 mm)
NOTE: this is closer than factory spec but Yngwie likes it this way.


The rig is as follows.........
Guitar >>>>> DOD250 (NOT Yellow -grey only)>>>>>> Boss NS2 Noise Suppresor>>>> Amp Hi Input (upper left) (no bridging inputs) >>>>>>>> Powerbrake (or THD Hotplate if needed) >>>>>>> Speaker Cab 4X12 with Celestion G12T-75 speakers


Note:
When using gray DOD 250 pedals use the loop in the Boss NS2 pedal
When using new DOD308 pedal, run Overdrive and Noise Pedal in sinple series


The "key" ingredients to the Yngwie sound are..............

1) HS3/YJM pickups

2) Light strings on scalloped neck for vibrato

3) Gray DOD Overdrive Pedal (new YJM308 as second choice).... but NOT the Yellow 250 reissue pedal.

4) A vintage style Marshall head without all the modern higain preamp distortion.

5) Celestion G12T-75 watt speakers (greenbacks and others dont do it right....too mushy and weak on low end..... vintage 30s are often to thick in the mids and give a muddy tone that ruins clarity.... but Mesa Rectifier players love them.)