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Author Topic: A question of power  (Read 5715 times)

Doadman

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A question of power
« on: January 27, 2011, 07:29:01 AM »
A key part of the specification of pickups seems to be the power and I assume it's important otherwise we wouldn't have calibrated sets, but just how close does it have to be? I can see the logic in pairing say a Holy Diver (15.9)with Trilogy Suites (12.5) as their power is close but pairing them with Irish Tours (6.3) seems a huge difference. Having said that, the neck Holy Diver is only 7.7 so there doesn't appear to be that much difference.

The reason this question came up was because I'm wanting to buy one of three different Bare Knuckle bridge pickups; the Nailbomb (15.7), Holy Diver (15.9) and Warpig (21.5). The problem is what I put with it. My first thought was to use a Sinner (15) in the neck as they're apparently most like humbuckers and it's really a PAF-type neck tone I'm after, or at least as close as a single coil sized pup will get me. However, there's no getting away from the fact that this is still a single coil so I've been looking at a DiMarzio Pro Track (7.7) for the neck as that apparently has a very PAF-like tone but I didn't know if it would have enough power to balance with the bridge. At first I thought 'probably' in the case of either the NB or HD as Tim pairs them with the weaker Irish Tours anyway but 'probably not' with the WP but I've heard of people using a HD neck with a WP bridge and the HD neck is the same power as a Pro Track. The issue of power seems very confusing so the short version of this very long question (sorry) is just how close do they have to be?

Telerocker

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2011, 11:32:29 PM »
I understand your point. In practice I notice not that much difference between my Crawler and IT's. Of course the hb has more mids and oomph, but in terms of outputlevel they are reasonably balanced. Maybe, cause the IT's are more present in the uppermids and high notes. They cut trough the mix very well. So loudness in terms of frequencies has an influence of what we experience as volume (must be bad english, sorry).
The difference in dc-resistance is great for splitting, the outer coil of the Crawler with the IT are about the same dc-resistance in this case and deliver great Fenderish-quack. So, I don't think it's so bad too combine a Nailbomb with Slowhands or something similar.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

Doadman

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2011, 11:48:00 PM »
Thanks for the input. I guess I can stop thinking too much about the power issue. I was originally wanting a Bare Knuckle HSS set but the more I think about it, the more it seems like needless expense. The middle pickup is rarely used and when it is, it's only in conjunction with either the bridge or neck so I figure I might as well just leave the Hotrails in there. For the neck, I really like the sound of the DiMarzio Pro Track. A thick and creamy PAF tone like the early Dave Murray neck tone is exactly what I'm after and sadly, this sounds like it fits the bill better than a Bare Knuckle single coil. For the bridge I'm undecided between HD, A-Bomb and A-Pig. I want a reasonably versatile pickup that can go from a higher gain version of Classic Rock to a heavy Metallica sound. I want a beefy sound that has an articulate but smooth distortion and excellent lead tone. The only other insight I can think of is that I only start to warm to the JB I have in there now when I use a Hardwire Metal Distortion pedal with an MXR Super Compressor where the output and sensitivity are maxed out and the Attack is virtually on zero. Every day I wake up I arrive at a decision only for that choice to change the next day. All three seem very good  :? Decisions, decisions!

ev1ltwin

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2011, 03:14:48 AM »
To be honest, I think all 3 pickups can get you where you want. It just depends on what you think would pair better with the acoustic tone of your guitar.

You mentioned Metallica, and I happen to be a fan of their stuff. Most of Hetfield's tone on the first 3 albums were really based on the amps/pedals used:

Kill em All - crunchy Marshall sound
Ride the Lightning - Marshall on full bore
Master of Puppets - Mesa Mark IIC+
(Every other album after that just sounds like EMGs with a shite ton of gain lol)

That being said, I have an A-pig, and it's instant MoP tone (full, dark, saturated/thick) through my Mesa Mark III. I've been rambling again...

Doadman

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2011, 06:45:00 AM »
LOL, perhaps, but it certainly highlights my problem. All 3 pickups are good, all will do the job in one way or another yet all are different in some way. As a maple neck-thru with alder wings it's certainly brighter than I'm used to (mahogany) so at first I thought it was bright but I've just bought a Pacifica as a backup guitar and that is noticeably brighter still so I'd say the Jackson is a bit more middy now. All 3 seem to have a reasonable amount of mids anyway so I'm not sure which suits me best from that either. I keep thinking that how I use the Compressor with the JB is significant because I like the way it thickens up the sound and makes it more forgiving to play. The notes seem remain articulate yet seem to merge together in a more flowing, smooth way at the same time. I can't really describe it as I don't fully understand what the different controls on the compressor are doing; I just turned them until it sounded better.

ev1ltwin

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2011, 02:13:31 PM »
Thick, articulate, and smooth is definitely how I would describe my A-pig. Also, I have it in my esp which is maple neck-thru with alder wings. I'm not the foremost tone expert on this site, but this is the one recommendation I'm qualified to make. Just buy it already!



It's got a switchcraft 500k DPTP, and I wired it for series/parallel. I can go from thick and full to Racer-X by pulling up on the volume. Also, the burnt chrome really meshes with the abalone inlays, but that's just a side note.

ratspeak

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2011, 08:17:08 PM »
That ESP is fine, twin. I'd play C minor 7 arpeggios on that if you know what I'm sayin'. ;)

Transcend

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2011, 09:27:33 PM »
my miracle man comes in at 18.3k and my mississippi queen neck is about 8.4k

there is no difference in volume whatsoever and both pickups match perfectly well

MDV

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2011, 09:30:48 PM »
Youre putting WAY too much stock in DC resistance. Its a measure of niether power nor apparent volume. The former is determined by the number of turns and the power (in henries) of the magnet/s, and the latter is affected by frequency distribution/power spectra, harmonic content, resonant frequency and how these interact with human hearing.

ericsabbath

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2011, 09:44:12 PM »
my custom riff raff (8.47k, 4mm alnico 5 magnet) sounds way louder than the miracle man I had
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Doadman

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2011, 12:34:30 AM »
Thanks to everyone for all this information. Clearly I have been placing far too much emphasis on DC resistance, though in my defence I think it's an easy mistake to make as the rationale I was using is quite logical to the uneducated. It seems that even going as far as a Warpig, a neck pickup of only 7.7 should work fine.

It's also great to hear from someone who has essentially the same guitar as mine and learn about their experiences. Of the three pickups I've narrowed it down to, Antag uses a Holy Diver with great results in a Jackson SL3 and now ev1ltwin uses a Warpig in another maple neck-thru guitar with alder wings and also has great results. So far most of my attention has been on the Nailbomb but that's largely because I liked the HD and WP a lot and the NB just seemed like a good compromise between the two. With such positive reports of the other two though I may change my mind. I don't know why, but my gut instinct tells me that the Warpig will be closer to that saturated sound I get when I use my compressor. I was also very interested to learn of the effects of a push/pull pot with its series/parrallel switch. You make it sound like having two pickups in one. I also liked the burnt chrome cover as if I get a cover, that's the one I'm wanting  :D

brian_ward

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2011, 03:19:44 PM »
the title of this thread sounds like a pantera album.

ericsabbath

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2011, 06:40:31 PM »
the nailbomb sounds completely different from both hd and wp
it's louder, sharper, more focused, less middy and less compressed than both
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 06:42:10 PM by Eric Hellstyle »
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Doadman

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2011, 07:21:51 PM »
I think what I was meaning when I said compromise was including ceramic options I'd also originally looked at. I found the HD very smooth and organic while the huge bass on the WP seemed very powerful but still smoothish. I liked both but the NB had a tight, articulate and aggressive nature in the bass, which is what I like for rhythm work and what I like about ceramics but it still had a more organic nature to it than ceramics tend to have. I REALLY hate the bass notes going muddy! However, the leads on the NB weren't as sweet as the other two, while still being better than the ceramic options. I liked that it was less middy but I still preferred some of the more compressed tones for some things I play. I didn't mean it was strictly between the two; I should have clarified it by saying that it was a compromise between HD, A-Pig, C-Pig, C-Bomb and A-Bomb. The A-Bomb had elements of all the others that I liked even if no individual aspect of the pickup was as good as an alternative. The best tightness and articulation was ceramic; the best lead tone was HD and the really huge sound I liked was WP. They're all bloody good and that's exactly what makes it hard to choose but also what makes them such fantastic pickups. I'd like the HD with less mids or the WP with more highs. In the case of the HD my concern is that in a middy guitar, all those mids will be too much while in the WP it's more that the highs will be lost a bit. The EQs of the ceramics look better but then I lose the organic tone. In reality they're all good so I will either pick one of the 3 at random or speak to Tim and buy whatever he says before I've even hung up the phone!

dave_mc

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Re: A question of power
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2011, 07:36:26 PM »
I can't really speak too much for BKPs, but just in general, I haven't really noticed a gigantic difference between neck and bridge humbuckers if the bridge is much hotter than the neck (yes, the neck pickup is less compressed and has less distortion, but if anything is as loud if not louder than the bridge regardless), but I've noticed a pretty big difference between humbuckers and single coils, where the single coils have noticeably less output. It might be due to the frequency response as much as the output...