Axe fx II is out

[nfe]

So this Kemper amp. Did he put some kind of signal though the amp which made that weird sound and that was enough for this thing to clone the entire Fender amp?

Basically. It sends a known set of frequencies at known volumes through the amplifier, analyzes the difference in EQ, volume dynamics(how much compression is applied) and harmonic structure for those frequencies at those volumes, and applies that to it's parameters and then allows you to make some remarkable changes. That's how it seems, anyways.

Does it do that through the range of all the amp's own eq controls? Or do you just get it mimicking a static eq position on whatever amp?

If it does that, and accurately, then it sounds rather amazing. Oh, that said, as MDV mentions above, if it's copying the cab and microphone as well that seems a bit rubbish. But presumably it could take it's return signal from a speaker out using a dummy load or something so you only get the response of the amp? Otherwise you're not ever going to be able to use it live other than straight into a PA.

[MDV]

So this Kemper amp. Did he put some kind of signal though the amp which made that weird sound and that was enough for this thing to clone the entire Fender amp?

Basically. It sends a known set of frequencies at known volumes through the amplifier, analyzes the difference in EQ, volume dynamics(how much compression is applied) and harmonic structure for those frequencies at those volumes, and applies that to it's parameters and then allows you to make some remarkable changes. That's how it seems, anyways.

Does it do that through the range of all the amp's own eq controls? Or do you just get it mimicking a static eq position on whatever amp?

If it does that, and accurately, then it sounds rather amazing. Oh, that said, as MDV mentions above, if it's copying the cab and microphone as well that seems a bit rubbish. But presumably it could take it's return signal from a speaker out using a dummy load or something so you only get the response of the amp? Otherwise you're not ever going to be able to use it live other than straight into a PA.

The latter as best I can tell - it mimics the behaviour of the amp on a given combination of settings. It cant determine how that behaviour would change with the change in settings, like how eqs will interact and interact with the gain and whatever else.

There is suspicion that it wont be able to accurately characterise some amps as well. I dont know about that, but its plausible.

As I understand the sampling now - I *think* you plug it in the loop so it captures the pre, and give it a signal from the mic so it gets the power amp + cab + speaker + mic. This is, again, as I understand it, how it seperates the amp and cab impulses.

[JacksonRR]

I don't see why it wouldn't capture even the oddest preamp configuration as accurately as the ones we've seen. Take a Bogner or an ENGL drive channel, for instance. Both drop off a lot of bass and highs throughout the gain staging and then use a mid-sucking tone stack to achieve the harmonic content added throughout while not having the end result sound shitety. Distortion as we know it as guitarists is actually a synthesizer. It ADDS artifacts that were not there before, in addition to clipping. As long the Kemper can identify that and your EQ settings are not radical on the amp that is profiled, we should still see a functional tone stack on the Kemper to manipulate the new "neutral." So, in a nutshell, if it can identify the difference between what went into Fender and Mesa and came out the speaker, it should be able to do that every time with any amplifier, preamp or audio device, with the onboard controls being not well suited to anything but an amplifier. On a YouTube vid, the uploader said it will do Bass amps without a problem. That leads me to believe we're looking at a device that can do more than it's marketed for and it gets me very excited. 10,000 models can be stored onboard. I don't know that many guitar amps I'd like to have, but when you start into vintage compressors and high-end microphone preamps, I'm sure the slots could be filled. Fack. Postulations get me excited.  :lol:

[Frank]

Distortion as we know it as guitarists is actually a synthesizer. It ADDS artifacts that were not there before

explain please

[viking]

Distortion as we know it as guitarists is actually a synthesizer. It ADDS artifacts that were not there before

explain please

  Using the "synthesizer" word like that is a mistake but i understand what he means and that's what counts at the end... 8)

[JacksonRR]

Stolen from Wikipedia:

Harmonic distortion
Main article: Clipping (signal processing)

Harmonic distortion adds overtones that are whole number multiples of a sound wave's frequencies.[1] Nonlinearities that give rise to amplitude distortion in audio systems are most often measured in terms of the harmonics (overtones) added to a pure sinewave fed to the system. Harmonic distortion may be expressed in terms of the relative strength of individual components, in decibels, or the Root Mean Square of all harmonic components: Total harmonic distortion (THD), as a percentage. The level at which harmonic distortion becomes audible is not straightforward. Different types of distortion (like crossover distortion) are more audible than others (like soft clipping) even if the THD measurements are identical. Harmonic distortion in RF applications is rarely expressed as THD.

And then this page should clear up the my synthesizer wording. I suppose I should have said "behaves as an additive synthesizer does." Sorry about that part, but hey, we've all called someone what they behave like, yeah? Take a really nasty fuzz pedal, for example, and get some inter-modulation going by playing unrelated notes. Yeah. :D

http://music.dartmouth.edu/~book/MATCpages/chap.4/4.2.add_synth.html

Our guitar amplifiers, even when not over driven, add harmonics based on the original to the original signal. This is why a clean tube channel sounds better to our ears(or warmer or whatever that's not the point) than say a transistor based one that boasts an amazingly low THD percentage. Even when run cleanly, harmonics are added to the signal. It's all a lot to get into, really. I just did this up real quick before I start the heavy drinking and then it'll not make a bit of sense at all. I'll start on how the 60 cycle hum in single coils is still creating impurities even with a noise gate or something(not that it's always bad, just that it is). It's mess in my head regarding how I understand and relate things and I do my best to make it understandable the way I see it if someone asks. Maybe someone else could also chime in and add something on the subject? Maybe adjust my view if it needs adjusting?

[Frank]

So ... when my amp heats up and the speaker moves air, it's working a bit like a hair dryer?

[JacksonRR]

So ... when my amp heats up and the speaker moves air, it's working a bit like a hair dryer?

The air coming out of hair dryers doesn't oscillate as such, so no. I love you, Frank. I bet you smell awesome in real life.

[Frank]

I love me too. I smell of cinnamon buns and ponies.

EDIT: just please, don't ever take me seriously

[JacksonRR]

Ah. I thought you were trying to invalidate me. I literally just had this conversation with my circuit analysis professor a few weeks ago. He's also a music geek. Made his own modular synth with midi control. Pretty neat stuff. But cinnamon buns and ponies? I was thinking more like bananas and sunshine.

Merlin Blencowe wrote this and I think it might help as well. Page 8, in particular, explains more on the behavior of 12AX7s in regards to producing certain types of harmonics.

http://www.freewebs.com/valvewizard1/Common_Gain_Stage.pdf

[Twinfan]

Why has no-one mentioned boobies yet in this thread?

[juansolo]

Distortion as we know it as guitarists is actually a synthesizer. It ADDS artifacts that were not there before

explain please

I'm with him on this one. I built a cab simulator the other day for my brother and I was trying various pedals in front of it to try and emulate (sort of) an amp. The difference between an OD and a distortion is plainly apparent in this scenario. The OD is designed to push the front end of an amp into distortion. That just doesn't work with the cab sim. A distortion actually creates the distortion internally and what comes out of it sounds like a pushed amp. These did work. I found it interesting anyhow.

[juansolo]

Why has no-one mentioned boobies yet in this thread?

I still haven't recovered from the Tanya Song photo shoot download.


Give me time...

[Johnny Mac]

In can't stop thinking about this Profiling amp. We're all kind of second guessing it to a degree. But if it's just a case of a quick procedure like in the video then it's a monster of a product.   A demo is the only way but at a music show, it's gonna be a big queue I reckon.
Anyone know when it's going on sale?

[JacksonRR]

No date that I could find, but Sweetw@ter does have it up on their site. Some good photos of the thing in higher resolution, too.

http://www.sweetw@ter.com/store/detail/ProfilingAmp/

What's with the @? Can't seem to get that out of the link.