Ooh, the new PRS Private Stock "Signature" guitars are hitting the shelves!

[dave_mc]

yeah it's very annoying.

they're only doing themselves out of sales... I mean if I think something is worth it at a price I can import it for, but the manufacturer won't let its dealers export it... I'm not buying it at the UK inflated price. I'll bite off my nose to spite my face and do without it first.

:)

[Twinfan]

They're not doing themselves out of sales Dave, they're keeping themselves in the music retail business!

[nfe]

It's really not at all difficult to find a dealer who'll send it to you regardless of what the manufacturer or distributer tells them. It just probably wont depart directly from their shop.

Ask any UK guitar store, or indeed, UK gear distributor.

[dave_mc]

They're not doing themselves out of sales Dave, they're keeping themselves in the music retail business!

i dunno.

They're certainly doing themselves out of sales. Maybe they're making a judgement call that they'll make more sales doing it the way they do- I'm sure they have a reason.

[What I'm guessing they're thinking is that they'll make fewer sales, but those they do make will have more profit. And that they'll also keep their distributors etc. in business.

I'm always a bit suspicious of that logic, though, because to me it's a bit close to a self-fulfilling prophecy... demand falls when things are dearer so you have to make more profit per sale. If you sell 10 items you have to make $100 profit per item to make a total profit of $1000. If you sell 100, you only have to make $10 peritem. What's more, if you make $100 profit per item there's much more chance you'll only sell 10 than 100.

Granted that's a simplification, but the principle behind it is sound.]

That doesn't mean I have to endorse that reason- they're looking out blatantly for themselves, I'll look out for me.

:)

[jpfamps]

I'm always a bit suspicious of that logic, though, because to me it's a bit close to a self-fulfilling prophecy... demand falls when things are dearer so you have to make more profit per sale. If you sell 10 items you have to make $100 profit per item to make a total profit of $1000. If you sell 100, you only have to make $10 peritem. What's more, if you make $100 profit per item there's much more chance you'll only sell 10 than 100.

Firstly the relationship between demand and price is NOT at all linear. There are many example of increasing price increasing demand as the goods are now considered more desirable because they command a higher price!

Secondly, increasing volume is not always easy. Do you think a smallish manufacturer such as PRS could even double their production whilst maintaining the same qc? I doubt it very much.

[Twinfan]

Indeed, jpf.

Any manufacturer needs a supply network which must be maintained to also provide backup/aftersales/parts/local PR and advertising etc.  If PRS, Fender or Gibson tried to run their global operations from a US base, only using US dealers to supply clients worldwide, they would fall flat on their backsides.

No product in local shops to be viewed/tried
No warranty issues sorted quickly and locally
Exchange rate fluctuations causing a sudden drop in sales
etc

If the odd customer gets a US dealer to ship a guitar to the UK, bypassing the "system", then it's not a problem I guess.  Long term though, the manufacturer has to maintain the "system" to survive at the same size or larger.

[dave_mc]

^ I'm not saying they should do that. I'm saying they shouldn't prevent their US dealers from exporting. I'm guessing most buyers would still buy locally- but those who didn't want to would have the option.

I mean here in NI there are no PRS dealers anyway. Granted it's easier to ship back to england than to the US, but it's still not exactly easy. If i'm not getting the local service anyway I might as well get a half-decent price :D

EDIT: I'm never sure about that exchange rate thing. They always tell us, "Oh the rate's good at the moment but we have to build in some leeway in case there's a fluctuation", but then any time there actually is a fluctuation the prices change...

:?

(a) Firstly the relationship between demand and price is NOT at all linear. There are many example of increasing price increasing demand as the goods are now considered more desirable because they command a higher price!

(b) Secondly, increasing volume is not always easy. Do you think a smallish manufacturer such as PRS could even double their production whilst maintaining the same qc? I doubt it very much.

(a) oh sure, that's true, I wouldn't argue against that for a second. It's infuriating, but it's true. For example, on the more US-centric guitar forums i post on, mesa is considered a well-made, but pretty mainstream brand- in the UK it's considered boutique :lol:

I guess it might be more accurate to say I disagree with that as a business practice :)

However, when people literally can't afford the thing, then price versus demand is pretty much linear (or at least much more so... there are a variety of other factors at play too).

(b) Probably not. But the example I gave was an extreme one to illustrate a point. I'm not expecting PRS to make ten times as many guitars, lol.

I just mean, I'm sure PRS sells more guitars in America. Granted it's a bigger market, but I bet it doesn't hurt that they're a lot cheaper too. They're still expensive enough that people think they're a quality product. Everything else is a fair bit cheaper there too so all it does is shift the baseline a bit.

[Twinfan]

I'm saying they shouldn't prevent their US dealers from exporting. I'm guessing most buyers would still buy locally- but those who didn't want to would have the option.

And how do you think the UK/French/Japanese/Australian dealer network would feel about that?  Especially in times of exchange rate fluctuations?

Should PRS/Gibson/Fender keep the minority customer who would buy an expensive guitar from abroad happy?  Or its entire worldwide dealer network?

I think I know what I'd do in PRS/Gibson/Fender's shoes  ;)

[dave_mc]

i don't see how that's really going to affect them... if (as you say) it's such a minority, it's only going to happen occasionally... and plus if they're anything like me they're not going to pay the local rate if they think it's too dear anyway.

For example:

Let's assume 100 guitarists in the UK (for handiness), and that the minority group think the same as me- 95 are willing to buy from UK shops, 5 think they're too dear and aren't allowed to import, so they don't bother.

95 sales.

Now, with the system which does allow exporting and importing:

that same 95 still buy from within the UK- they were never even thinking of importing anyway.

the other 5 import.

100 sales.

Granted that's a bit of a simplification- in reality there'll be some overlap between the two groups. But again, as a simplified illustration, I think it works ok.

EDIT: the other thing i'd say is, they often don't care *that* much about their dealers- they often let dealers within the country compete on price, etc. etc. Also the old gibson thing where you have to buy a certain number of models to be allowed to be a dealer etc.

[Twinfan]

I don't think we'll agree on this Dave  :lol:

It's more than just sales numbers - it's about brand awareness, support, image in the market etc.

[dave_mc]

yeah i don't think so. :lol:

Don't get me wrong- I understand perfectly why they do it. I just disagree with doing it.

FWIW none of those things matter to me, really (ok, support maybe, but i'd need to be getting a fair bit of support to justify like double the price :lol: )

[Twinfan]

It's not just about you though is it Dave  ;)

[Philly Q]

Nice new avatar Dave (J)!  

Kind of emphasises your standpoint in this debate.  :D

[Twinfan]

Ha ha!  I thought I'd have a swap as I'm selling Pearly, and I'm obviously a fan of Mr Smith's work...

[AndyR]

I was gonna say, "nice avatar, have you got an endorsement deal now?" :lol:

You're selling Pearly?!!  :o

I know we must all learn to accept and/or predict any change in the TF armoury, regardless of whether he protests loudly against the possibility or not... (:lol: - that's part of the guaranteed entertainment on this forum) ... but I have to say I'm truly surprised about this development...

Still, there was that thread the other day about using all one's geetars or not... didn't realise this is where it might be heading.

EDIT: Just read the ad in Seconds Out. Makes more sense to me now. Sad stuff, sorry to hear it :(

So you're up for trades? I've got Dano 59 reissue with only five strings on it that I don't play much... any good? :lol:

Otherwise, it's way out of my league :( - good luck on shifting her though.