weird news coverage of london tonight

[nfe]

I predicted this to happen. It happened in Paris. Those hoods were powder kegs waiting for a spark.

I find the media to PC in it's coverage. That guy that was shot was an armed and dangerous criminal, a gangster.

Allegedly a gangster. Allegedly armed. The originally (totally valid) protest was his family and friends asking for information as they were getting nothing from the Police.

The looters and rioters don't do it because they're poor or anything. They do it because they're scum that want to live the life of a football or (gangsta) rap star.

Poor people loot and riot for food, not plasma TVs and sneakers.

No. But there is context to be seen here. When was the last time we had anything of this scale? During the last depression in times of austerity. Currently we have the poorest social mobility of any developed country, some of the areas involved (or at least where the people involved seem to be appearing from, in search of things to nick) are by far the poorest in the nation and several are the places worst effected by the cuts and have double the national average unemployment. Many feel they're disregarded by the police, or worse persecuted, and the police aren't held accountable (which figures worryingly support, especially with the Met). Now people aren't out there rioting because of that directly, it's no protest, but these things have created a background of hopelessness and an attitude of "If I want it, I might as well take it, I'm never going to be able to earn it".

Civil unrest, and now rioting has been on the rise in the last year, perhaps unsurprising given we've a Prime Minister who stated publicly that peaceful protest would have no effect on policy. This has been bubbling under waiting to erupt, and the root causes are being entirely ignored.

Disregarding it as "scum that want to live the life of a football or (gangsta) rap star" is dangerous. It ignores the context and invites us to sweep it under the carpet and wait for it to happen again. The people involved are arseholes, no question, but this isn't so widespread and fast-growing for no reason.

[Dmoney]

I feel nfe has summed up what I've been trying to get straight in my head
just heard people might be gathering at London fields now.

[Andrew W]

I'm in agreement with nfe. I lived in Camberwell, Peckham and Lewisham and that's certainly my experience of parts of those areas, especially with kids who have nothing to do and very little to realistically aspire toward.

I live reasonably close to Hackney now but where I am was quiet last night. That said I'm currently in an office just north of Oxford Street and we've had all bar one of the doors into the building closed, locked and barricaded so I'm not sure if that's based on actual intelligence from somewhere or just in case. Stay safe everyone.

[Ratrod]

See this video: http://www.telegraaf.nl/s/10339841

Scum!

It's not an attitude of "If I want it, I might as well take it, I'm never going to be able to earn it", it's an attitude of "If I want it, I might as well take it, because I can and there are no consequenses". And " Why would I work 8 hours a day while I can make the same money with  two hours of husslin'? "

[HTH AMPS]

See this video: http://www.telegraaf.nl/s/10339841

Scum!

It's not an attitude of "If I want it, I might as well take it, I'm never going to be able to earn it", it's an attitude of "If I want it, I might as well take it, because I can and there are no consequenses". And " Why would I work 8 hours a day while I can make the same money with  two hours of husslin'? "

It really is sickening, total and utter cowards - I hope they're brought to justice.  However the reality is they will (if they're caught) get a slap on the wrists community order or some cr@p like that.

[nfe]

See this video: http://www.telegraaf.nl/s/10339841

Scum!

It's not an attitude of "If I want it, I might as well take it, I'm never going to be able to earn it", it's an attitude of "If I want it, I might as well take it, because I can and there are no consequenses". And " Why would I work 8 hours a day while I can make the same money with  two hours of husslin'? "

Is anyone disputing that they're scum? When we're all in agreement (as is pretty much the entire nation, including the rioters themselves) it's far more useful to actually think about why this situation has arisen than reactionary moaning. If it's just that they're all scum who can't be arsed to work why isn't this behaviour constant and always on this scale? There are things needing done to prevent the attitudes arising that lead to this. Calling them names, howling about getting the army out and demanding watercannons and rubber bullets be used and other such nonsense that's being mentioned left right and centre will have zero effect. Increased prison sentences for shoplifting and vandalism will have no effect. Harsher prisons will have zero effect. All the usual rightist ideas will have zero effect, this demonstrable. Grass roots work is what's needed.

[Roobubba]

Which brings me back to my earlier point.

Shoot them all.

Shoot them dead.

Shoot them now!

[nfe]

Let's take our cues from Syria!

[Roobubba]

The difference being that these people aren't the innocent public.


They're all in one place! It's like looking a $%&#ing gift horse in the mouth!

[Roobubba]

Besides, word would get around pretty damn quick:

DO NOT STEAL STUFF YOU shiteBAGS

[nfe]

It was a joke. Mostly as I presumed your calling for summary executions was too.

[Philly Q]

Many feel they're disregarded by the police, or worse persecuted, and the police aren't held accountable (which figures worryingly support, especially with the Met). Now people aren't out there rioting because of that directly, it's no protest, but these things have created a background of hopelessness and an attitude of "If I want it, I might as well take it, I'm never going to be able to earn it".

I can't really disagree with anything nfe said (although I'm not of a mind to be so reasonable towards these arseholes!) but I wonder if the key phrase there is they "feel" they're disregarded, or persecuted, or hopeless?

Is it really that bad?  I get the feeling some of these kids have it drummed into them, like a mantra, almost from birth... they're never going to make it because of their background (ethnic or otherwise) or where they live, the police have it in for them, there's no point making any effort in school, they might as well get what they can from the State.... and they just trot out that line, by rote, without ever thinking of any alternative (if indeed they ever think at all).

I don't want to get all Daily Mail, but they really do seem to feel the world owes them a living - the notion that perhaps they can achieve but they might actually have to work for it themselves, and it may take a long time.... that seems to be an alien concept nowadays.

Yes indeed, grass roots work is needed.  How do we stop this lot bringing up their own kids with the same attitudes?

[nfe]

I think there's certainly numbers of people who believe the problem is greater than it is and have grown up with that mindset, no doubt. But social mobility IS worse (by a massive gap if we look back half a century) than it has previously been in the UK. The wealth gap IS greater. Unemployment is high, public spending is reducing... Those people who see the Police seemingly get away with miscarriages of justice (high profile ones like Tomlinson, but also the 333+ who've died in Police custody in the last decade without a single conviction)... The problems are definitely real.

[MrBump]

Yes indeed, grass roots work is needed.  How do we stop this lot bringing up their own kids with the same attitudes?

Absolutely.

It's as easy to take the Right wing "zero tolerance" approach as it is to take the Socialist "Society is to blame" one, but these are attitudes instilled across generations.

My wife works in a Social context (big "S"), and we've seen her role eroded with govenment cuts and public disinterest.  It's sad, very sad.

[Afghan Dave]

"This was not protest, it was crime and it was done with such impunity, it begs the question, "who raised these people to behave this way?" The answer is, the state raised them. More specifically, the "Welfare State" of socialist dreams.

It houses them - badly. It educates them - badly. It doesn't even bother to police their drug taking and dealing very much and the "something for nothing" culture which pervades places like Tottenham results in them seeing the opportunity to steal as one to be taken gleefully and without consequence.

There are thousands of decent people in Tottenham who work hard, try to do the best for their kids and who are no doubt appalled by what happenned. But like the 27 children who want to learn, but who can't because of the disruptive behaviour of three trouble-makers at the back of the class, the criminals who rioted and looted on Saturday cowed them in to submission.

If you want people to behave irresponsibly, take responsibility away from them. The Welfare State has been taking responsibility away from people for decades and it has led us here, to the rioting and looting we saw in Tottenham and elsewhere over the weekend."

I wholeheartedly support the above!