Dale Farm

[Philly Q]

I heard a spokeswoman from the site say that they had been offered houses by the council but they did not want them as they were travellers and didn't want to be rooted down (which would violate their human rights and dissolve their culture)

I don't want to get too involved in this, because I'm not sufficiently well-informed.  But I've heard several Dale Farm residents saying exactly the above.

So culturally they're "travellers" (which implies, er, travel.... ) and don't want to be rooted down.  But on the other hand they apparently do want to be rooted down if it's on their own terms in Dale Farm.  :?

[Twinfan]

It is not a case of them not getting ALL the planning they want, it's the fact that EIGHT TIMES as many (as a %) traveler applications get denied as those from settled people.

The land was bought at extremely low cost, yes. Because they decided instead of buying land earmarked for development (which they had been doing to no avail) they'd by other land, build on it, apply for permission afterwards and even if it got denied, they reckoned that by the time it all went through they'd have gotten permission for somewhere. They've paid massive money for lots of sites which they get refused planning permission on.

Does that make it ok? No, but it makes it totally understandable.

But according to Afghan Dave they're buying Green Belt land expecting to get planning permission, and then kicking up a fuss when it gets refused?  :?

Non-travellers would have this kind of planning permission refused too, but we know the rules and don't start a fight from a losing battle...

[tomjackson]

I heard a spokeswoman from the site say that they had been offered houses by the council but they did not want them as they were travellers and didn't want to be rooted down (which would violate their human rights and dissolve their culture)

I don't want to get too involved in this, because I'm not sufficiently well-informed.  But I've heard several Dale Farm residents saying exactly the above.

So culturally they're "travellers" (which implies, er, travel.... ) and don't want to be rooted down.  But on the other hand they apparently do want to be rooted down if it's on their own terms in Dale Farm.  :?

I think they want to be rooted down in a place with plenty of space that they could not afford legitimately.
They own property  back in Ireland accordind to most sources anyway:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8752704/Travellers-facing-eviction-from-Dale-Farm-gipsy-camp-have-their-own-homes-in-Ireland.html

[Elliot]

Since when has the Telegraph been a 'source'?

[nfe]

Now - forgive me for being very simplistic here but....

Most of these travellers are actually IRISH...

So where does this cultural identity, heritage fit in? They did not get Irish accents by living in Essex...

If they don't like the UK rule - go back to Ireland - there are plenty of green fields to park your caravans in over there...

Really? They're British people. Several (at the least) generations from immigrants in most cases.

It is not a case of them not getting ALL the planning they want, it's the fact that EIGHT TIMES as many (as a %) traveler applications get denied as those from settled people.

The land was bought at extremely low cost, yes. Because they decided instead of buying land earmarked for development (which they had been doing to no avail) they'd by other land, build on it, apply for permission afterwards and even if it got denied, they reckoned that by the time it all went through they'd have gotten permission for somewhere. They've paid massive money for lots of sites which they get refused planning permission on.

Does that make it ok? No, but it makes it totally understandable.

But according to Afghan Dave they're buying Green Belt land expecting to get planning permission, and then kicking up a fuss when it gets refused?  :?

Non-travellers would have this kind of planning permission refused too, but we know the rules and don't start a fight from a losing battle...

I'm not sure how many times I've said on the previous pages, but it's certainly a few: They bought and built on Dale Farm BECAUSE they get refused planning permission everywhere, hoping that by the time they got moved on they'd have been able to buy and build legitimately.

I heard a spokeswoman from the site say that they had been offered houses by the council but they did not want them as they were travellers and didn't want to be rooted down (which would violate their human rights and dissolve their culture)

I don't want to get too involved in this, because I'm not sufficiently well-informed.  But I've heard several Dale Farm residents saying exactly the above.

So culturally they're "travellers" (which implies, er, travel.... ) and don't want to be rooted down.  But on the other hand they apparently do want to be rooted down if it's on their own terms in Dale Farm.  :?

I think they want to be rooted down in a place with plenty of space that they could not afford legitimately.
They own property  back in Ireland accordind to most sources anyway:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8752704/Travellers-facing-eviction-from-Dale-Farm-gipsy-camp-have-their-own-homes-in-Ireland.html

So by actively attempting to buy and build on land legally and using Dale Farm as a stopgap they are trying to buy big areas  they couldn't legitimately? Guffaw.

What relevance does their having passed down property in Ireland have to do with their wanting to live in the UK?

The word "traveler" is an easy term which they've taken on, it doesn't have to imply a lifestyle any more than "Welsh" designates a place of residency. Indeed most travelers live in homes within the settled community.

[mikeluke]

nfe

Sorry to disagree but regarding the folk on the news items - the only people with British accents seem to be the activists - the travellers seem to be uniformly Irish

[nfe]

Accent =/= nationality.

[Ratrod]

"Not all of them are criminals."
Not all grass is green.

"It's racism"
Choice of lifestyle is not a race, neither is nationality.

"it's culture"
Then chasing them away is culture too. In some regions canabalism is culture.

[nfe]

I'm sure there's a point hidden in there :lol:

Incidentally, in legal terms, discrimination based on ethnicity falls under racism. And Irish travelers ARE a distinct ethnicity.

[Afghan Dave]

"Not all of them are criminals."
Not all grass is green.

"It's racism"
Choice of lifestyle is not a race, neither is nationality.

"it's culture"
Then chasing them away is culture too. In some regions canabalism is culture.

AMEN!

If female circumcision is "in your culture" it doesn't make it right.

I'll say again... BUY A HOUSE & LIVE IN IT!

Do you think I could simply turn up to any "traveller" site with my Winnebago like Chevy Chase on vacation and be welcomed?

They're segregated by their own cultural intolerance. 

[Afghan Dave]

I'm sure there's a point hidden in there :lol:

Incidentally, in legal terms, discrimination based on ethnicity falls under racism. And Irish travelers ARE a distinct ethnicity.

How many generations have you got to be away from the "home country" to be English then?

Let's just self define away any hope of integration..... then bitch about discrimination.

Like when I hear the Islamist c*nts who' have lived for 3 generations in Bradford or Luton, then bang on about the kufar and Pakistan as home.

"You're from England you sh*t!"
  

[Dmoney]

I'm sure there's a point hidden in there :lol:

Incidentally, in legal terms, discrimination based on ethnicity falls under racism. And Irish travelers ARE a distinct ethnicity.

How many generations have you got to be away from the "home country" to be English then?

Let's just self define away any hope of integration..... then bitch about it!

Irish Travelers and Romany Gypsies are ethnic minorities because they have their own history and traditions which go back hundreds of years. Even if you call them English by nationality, the existence of that history etc which differs to the main population is what makes them an ethnic minority... unless im wrong.

[Afghan Dave]

I'm sure I could find "a dash of Viking" pissed somewhere into my messy gene pool.

Rape and pillaging is in "my culture" so I assert my human right to practice it.

Or we could stop all this cr@p and when Her Majesty passes, agree to something like this:

"I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

[nfe]

If female circumcision is "in your culture" it doesn't make it right.

You're not comparing a nomadic or partly nomadic lifestyle to female circumcision, one hopes? Thought not, so what relevance does it have?

I'll say again... BUY A HOUSE & LIVE IN IT!

Why?

Do you think I could simply turn up to any "traveller" site with my Winnebago like Chevy Chase on vacation and be welcomed?

They're segregated by their own cultural intolerance.  

If you are part of a community which has been discriminated against for some time you're probably not all that keen to integrate with the majority population. Especially when they all think you and your whole community is made up exclusively of thieves and criminals. People used to make the same accusation towards black people until folk stopped being morons and understood that it was unacceptable and made efforts to improve their situation - efforts to integrate then came about from the minority community too.

I'm sure there's a point hidden in there :lol:

Incidentally, in legal terms, discrimination based on ethnicity falls under racism. And Irish travelers ARE a distinct ethnicity.

How many generations have you got to be away from the "home country" to be English then?

Let's just self define away any hope of integration..... then bitch about discrimination.

Like when I hear the Islamist c*nts who' have lived for 3 generations in Bradford or Luton, then bang on about the kufar and Pakistan as home.

"You're from England you sh*t!"
  

If you're eligible for an UK passport you're British in my book. I'm not sure what you're getting at? "English" is an ethnicity, but it's quite possible to be nationally English and ethnically Jewish, for instance. Or nationally French and ethnically English.

I'm sure I could find "a dash of Viking" pissed somewhere into my messy gene pool.

Rape and pillaging is in "my culture" so I assert my human right to practice it.

Gods, you ARE likening harmless cultural traditions to harmful ones :lol:

[mikeluke]

I don't get the discrimination bit.

If I went into a farmer's field and built a house without planning permission or parked my caravan there and made a huge mess could I claim discrimination on ethnic grounds on the basis that the law was written in English, which is not my first language and therefore does not apply to me, or that all Welsh people are genetically messy bar-stewards?