Dale Farm

[MrBump]

So, the cops are moving in to the Dale Farm travellers site.

Twenty million quid seems perfectly reasonable to me for a Local Authority eviction...

To be honest, I live about 5 miles from the site, and I've never seen or heard of any problems with it until about a year ago.

[Stevepage]

Thing is, travellers don't pay income tax and council tax. They pay VAT but that's only because it's on top of the cost of food and drink and in the case of Dale Farm where they completely avoided planning permission which any one else would have to do. If we built a house without planning permission, we'd have to knock down the house and wait for planning permission. I think it's taking the p*ss and is a kick in the crotch to others who do pay their way in society and abide by laws. I heard one of the travellers say that the government/council should have built it for them then they wouldn't be in this muddle, why should the council do that?

Why should they get special treatment.

[Twinfan]

I'm with Steve.  There are systems in place for homeless people and they should pay into the system/play by the rules like everyone else is expected to.

[Ratrod]

Pikey's revenge: http://youtu.be/AR8SkOhKG9Y

[Frank]

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/79744-pikey-is-now-a-race-hate-word

[nfe]

Thing is, travellers don't pay income tax and council tax.

False. Some don't, but some settled folk don't either. Is the rate of avoidance higher? Yes, but that's because:

in the case of Dale Farm where they completely avoided planning permission which any one else would have to do.

"Completely avoided planning permission" is total bollocks. After 1994 when the requirement to provide sites for travelers was removed by the government travelers started buying plots of land and applying for planning permission. With a 90% knock back rate (the settled community is refused 10% of applications). So they began to buy land and retroactively apply for planning permission (totally legal) and still got knocked back, but decided to live there anyway and continue to look for sites where planning permission would be granted. They don't pay council tax because the councils don't recognise their dwellings.

If we built a house without planning permission, we'd have to knock down the house and wait for planning permission.

Nope. You'd apply after the fact and provided it's safe you'd get it granted.

Why should they get special treatment.

They want equal treatment, not special treatment.

If you owned a patch of land and a caravan and were made homeless. Would you go and live in it? That's the origin of the problem. Most of the bricks and mortar homes on the site are in the legal half with planning permission.

Also worth noting that 1 square mile would house every traveler in the nation who lives in an illegal home. Yet it's too much of an ask for any council to grant planning permission an area that size on the shedloads of land travelers own because it's acceptable to be institutionally racist towards them and because the high percentage of their constituents who are cretins would be in uproar off the backs of appallingly misleading press.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/79744-pikey-is-now-a-race-hate-word

It always has been. Still, "Violent Racist Thug Convicted" would have had less of a slant on it as a headline.

[blue]

as i understand it, they were told by a government agency before buying the land that they would get planning permission there, but Basildon council then refused to do so.  there are always at least three sides to every story, of course, and the whole truth of the matter is quite hard to find.

the riot gear clad army of police, the tasers and the "storming" of the settlement all have a rather distasteful feel to them.  a bit too reminiscent of 1930's Germany.

i totally agree that these people must follow the same laws as the rest of us, but it is certainly a fact that they don't be treated the same as the rest of us when they try to.

[blue]

and as Mr. Bump says, they've blown 20 Million quid on this!  at a time when councils are supposed to be making massive cutbacks.  presumably there won't be any bin collections in Basildon for the next while then

[Twinfan]

Interesting insight from you both, nfe and blue.

[nfe]

and as Mr. Bump says, they've blown 20 Million quid on this!  at a time when councils are supposed to be making massive cutbacks.  presumably there won't be any bin collections in Basildon for the next while then

They have money for 10,000 homes, though... Looking to build 10,000 homes for settled people, but they couldn't find an area to allow people to buy plots to house a few hundred people?

Incidentally, East of England Regional Assembly instructed Basildon Council that they need to find 81 sites for travelers over the course of the court case, but Basildon Council refused to find any and a representative stated that they weren't looking to find anywhere because "We've got enough of them" on Jake Bowers BBC radio show. If a council is being instructed to provide sites, and a very small area can solve the problem, it seems a worry that said council simply refuses to comply and it isn't a stretch to imagine planning permission's simply being refused out of hand (especially with the way our planning councils can be hamstrung by one or two members). 

The whole thing is farcical.

[MrBump]

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/79744-pikey-is-now-a-race-hate-word

I'm so glad that was East Sussex, not Essex!

[Alex]

This eviction is simply racist.

Those kids have been going to schools around there for years. There is no sense in using such police force to evict famlies with small children from their homes on property that they own.

Plus whatever people flame me for, 20million ££££?????????????????????? I want to see the moron who signed that off crucified when we are laying off staff because we can't afford their 14.000-20.000£  salaries a year.

[Afghan Dave]

Let them find somewhere & buy it... let them be happy... Ensure they observe EXACTLY the same laws as the settled community (the same laws they are happy to exploit) and ensure they pay the same taxes as the rest of our diverse multi-racial country and I'm 100% with you.

Give them ANY special treatment based on their self serving interpretation of "culture" ?

F**K RIGHT OFF!

http://youtu.be/TOSZwEwl_1Q

These f**kers aren't even "gypsies" (Romani a genuine race) but they are Tramps And Thieves.

[Afghan Dave]

This eviction is simply racist.

Those kids have been going to schools around there for years. There is no sense in using such police force to evict famlies with small children from their homes on property that they own.

The same schools that they have shown the nationwide highest truancy rates since these people bothered placing the kid names on the register?

Oh, and this same community who do not believe in educating their daughters equally?

Sexism is OK is it so long as it is in their "culture"?

[gwEm]

Interesting insight from you both, nfe and blue.

I agree - interesting insights.

Having grown up near Epsom I must say I do harbor some sort of negative feeling towards the travelling community. Naturally I'm sure many of them are fine pillars of the community. But every time the Derby was on, and they set up their fair, the amount of crime some of them caused in the area was quite notable. They totally trashed every field in the area they set up on, and a number of their cars/caravans and fairground rides were in a very dangerous state.

The parents of an old girlfriend of mine owned a farm and they had a number of run ins with them, completely decimating a number of good fields over the years.

Maybe this is just a small percent, but it surely doesn't help their image. Even if forced in to illegal inhabiting (either through lack of planning permission or simply squatting) respect should be paid to the surroundings.

Now I have no idea if this is the case in Dale Farm, it sounds like it was indeed a peaceful co-existence, but my own experiences of the travelling community have sadly been bad ones.

edit: so I have very divided feelings about the whole thing - apparent police brutality was very worrying, and maybe indeed this was some sort of 'success story' at settling travellers.

edit 2: but due to some increasingly bias media coverage of this whole story, its in fact impossible for me to make a judgement about the whole issue.