Cyclists - let's kill them all

[Philly Q]

Motorists very rarely drive through red lights - at least if they do, you can bloody well see that they're going to!

"Cyclists, on the other hand, do it all the time."

In fact some cyclists do it a lot of the time, personally I don't nor do the majority of cyclists. So was that a reasonable part of this discussion?

Yes, it was reasonable because it's true.  

I said "cyclists".  I didn't say "all cyclists", or "the majority of cyclists", or even "23% of cyclists".  I said "cyclists".

As I said, I see this happen almost every day.  It could be 365 different cyclists, it could be the same $%&#ing tw@t 365 times, I don't know and I don't care.  I just wish they'd stop doing it.

I'm talking about busy London roads where, as a pedestrian, you only have a few seconds to cross at a red light.  Why should that opportunity be disrupted by someone on a bike charging through at 30mph?  And I repeat, aren't they supposed to stop at a red light?

I can understand you being upset by the thread title, but you're overreacting to perfectly reasonable points.

[Ian Price]

Me too Philly.

I have seen many cyclists stop at the red lights but also many completely ignore whatever colour the light is and happily cycle along. I witnessed a cyclist today who saw a red light, mounted the pavement and then got back onto the road after he had gone past the red light. Not good.

I don't have anything against cyclists at all other than they should really respect the rules of the road. Whenever I am out in the car I always make room for them and won't sit behind them revving my engine when I can't get past.

For the record I don't live in London and choose to avoid it whenever I can so can't really comment about the cycling situation there. If it is as dangerous as people are saying it is (and I have no reason to disbelieve them) then perhaps there should be some form of cyclist uprising to do something about their safety (or lack of). I see it as black and white though in that it doesn't excuse going through a red light etc.

[choucas09]

So in the statement "Motorists very rarely drive through red lights" are you referring to "all motorists", "the majority of motorists", or even "23% of motorists?

 This is what I call a reasonable discussion.

 I addition someone else said something far more insulting to the OP than me earlier in the thread with no response from the contributors. My eventual post receives flak. Once again is this reasonable?

[Philly Q]

So in the statement "Motorists very rarely drive through red lights" are you referring to "all motorists", "the majority of motorists", or even "23% of motorists?

 This is what I call a reasonable discussion.

Oh come on.

Many motorists run red lights, just after they've changed from amber.  Motorists in this country never completely ignore red lights - as if they don't even apply to them - and just cruise through 15 seconds after the light has changed, as people are crossing the road.  But some (SOME!!!) cyclists do exactly that. 

I don't know the percentages and neither do you, but it's more cyclists than it is motorists, you bloody well know that it happens, and it happens frequently.  Stop denying facts.


 :|


Look, I don't know what I've said to upset you so much.  Mate.

I'm talking about situations where a pedestrian - maybe me - is trying to cross a road, the big round light is red and the little man is green.  A cyclist - NOT YOU - chooses to ignore said red light and obstruct the path of said pedestrian in a potentially dangerous manner.  Doesn't the pedestrian have every right to be annoyed?

How exactly am I in the wrong here?

[gwEm]

For the record I don't live in London and choose to avoid it whenever I can so can't really comment about the cycling situation there. If it is as dangerous as people are saying it is (and I have no reason to disbelieve them) then perhaps there should be some form of cyclist uprising to do something about their safety (or lack of). I see it as black and white though in that it doesn't excuse going through a red light etc.

theres something called 'Critical Mass' each month which is effectively a kind of cyclist uprising. i went on it once and had fun, but the one i went on was kind of ruined by the actions of a few.

I do think that some cyclists do factor the danger of cycling, with the positive ecological aspect of cycling, and the fact it uses energy to speed up again after stopping to justify the fact they run reds, or jump up on to pavements etc. Clearly thats wrong, on the other hand, I have to do an emergency stop more than once a day to avoid a serious incident with a car, bus etc after they made some sort of bad move.

Cycling in London gets better every year, but death or serious injury still faces us everyday

[Philly Q]

I addition someone else said something far more insulting to the OP than me earlier in the thread with no response from the contributors. My eventual post receives flak. Once again is this reasonable?

It was actually a completely reasonable discussion until people started trading insults.

I said until "people" started trading insults.  It was a non partisan statement.

[gwEm]

I don't know the percentages and neither do you, but it's more cyclists than it is motorists, you bloody well know that it happens, and it happens frequently.  Stop denying facts.

Its not my bit of the discussion here i know, but I think your right Philly.

I also think that more pedestrians jump reds than cyclists.

Maybe its partly a question of accountability, no license etc etc

[choucas09]

Well it must be down to semantics. Anyway as someone who has had 2 major operations as a result of bad driving (I didn't see you on the bike) by others whilst having a clean record in cycling, you have to understand a certain sensitivity on my part concerning one of our national pastimes of slag off the cyclist. I reckon I have a genuine case for a kill all motorists thread. Except I don't have, the ones that got me I do not try to pass off as in any way typical.

[nfe]

Maybe its partly a question of accountability, no license etc etc

Definitely. And a perceived lack of destructive ability.

[Elliot]

Actually, I was unaware that a pedestrian,  not being a person in charge of a vehicle, could 'jump' a red light or had a legal obligation to observe traffic lights (as opposed to considerations of prudence).  I always understood that jay walking was an offence in some US states but had no legal meaning in the UK.  Better go and read up on my highway code...

[richard]

I understand that cyclists suffer badly at the hands of some motorists but I think a lot of the poor behaviour of some cyclists is a direct reaction to this. You don't often see a car going the wrong way down a one way street but cyclists do it all the time. Similarly the habit of mounting the pavement at random moments. It seems to be them saying to car drivers ' Here's something you can't do nur, nur, nur '. Unfortunately it's pedestrians that get caught in the crossfire.

[choucas09]

In the last ten years, just over 7,600 pedestrian were killed by motor vehicles while 29 were killed by cyclists. Over the same period, 364,000 pedestrians were injured by motor vehicles, almost 76,000 (or 21%) of them seriously while cyclists injured just over 2,600 with roughly the same proportion (22%) being considered serious.

[JacksonRR]

In the last ten years, just over 7,600 pedestrian were killed by motor vehicles while 29 were killed by cyclists. Over the same period, 364,000 pedestrians were injured by motor vehicles, almost 76,000 (or 21%) of them seriously while cyclists injured just over 2,600 with roughly the same proportion (22%) being considered serious.

I'd like to know how those numbers correlate to the total number of vehicles/bicycles, but it's still a bicycle. Not as much weight/speed there and much less fun to operate while drunk. Can you get in trouble with the law for cycling drunk?

[MisterMuncher]

Yes. And with no licence to lose, you can get fined into oblivion.

You can get stopped for speeding on one, too, which was news to me (who wasn't actually breaking the limit, just getting close enough that a cop felt the need to warn me).

[Ian Price]

I suppose those stats make it perfectly justifiable for cyclists to go through red lights.   :roll: