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Author Topic: No ticket.....  (Read 24212 times)

Chris

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2011, 09:48:00 AM »
I guess we just have different points of view MrBump.  I don't want the public trying to impose their own version of justice on anyone, I don't want random strangers trying to guess at whether I am in the right or wrong without all the facts and trying to hand out their own version of vigilante justice.  We have authorities for that.

Also, there is another reason for the big man not to have acted as he did - what if the passenger was really a scrote and was so to the point that he was carrying a knife, or what if he didn't have a knife but he decided to fight back?  The 'big man' could have ended up in hospital and he would have had no comeback, as effectively he started a fight with someone and came off the worse.  That's another reason that the authorities should deal with things like this.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of want to agree with you as I think that this guy was genuinely a scrote - but that isn't my call to make and we have to be objective about this.  If the conductor and the 'big man' can get away with this, then what about next time when they get it wrong (assuming they didn't this time).

MrBump

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2011, 10:08:43 AM »
Understand completely.

But again - that's the point.  It's about NOT WANTING to absolve myself from responsibility and handing that responsibility over to another (state/police/school etc). 

I'm not talking about kangaroo courts, stringing people up from lamp posts etc.  But I think that in so many ways it's up to us to take the lead in situations like that, not pass the responsibility to a dubious authority.

I for one will always tell someone being abusive on a train that they're in the wrong, and act accordingly*.

* Unless they're WAY bigger/harder than me, obviously...
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Chris

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #62 on: December 18, 2011, 10:37:59 AM »
meh...  I'll admit I'm torn on this one, as I say I kind of agree with you.  I just don't think it should be as physical as it was this time.

Philly Q

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #63 on: December 18, 2011, 04:59:14 PM »
But again - that's the point.  It's about NOT WANTING to absolve myself from responsibility and handing that responsibility over to another (state/police/school etc). 

I'm not talking about kangaroo courts, stringing people up from lamp posts etc.  But I think that in so many ways it's up to us to take the lead in situations like that, not pass the responsibility to a dubious authority.

I think you're right, but if you take action on your own you risk various consequences - (a) being perceived as a violent thug yourself; (b) being seriously injured or even killed; (c) being prosecuted by the scrote or their family.

Does that sound cowardly?  Probably.

I think ideally we need to get back to a state of affairs which (perhaps) existed in the past, where the majority of people "just won't stand for it".   Then if you raised your voice in a situation like this, you could expect others to back you up - and hopefully strength of numbers would keep things relatively calm and ensure it never got to the point of physical action.

Whereas nowadays if someone actually stands up to a troublemaker, 99% of the rest of us will bury our heads in the sand and pretend we can't see or hear anything.  Or - even worse - treat it as some kind of entertainment to be filmed and posted on YouTube.  :|   

Taking a much less serious situation as an example, it's amazing how one person can sit and annoy everyone on a bus by playing loud music on their phone - no-one else wants to hear it, but no-one will ask them to turn it down.... because they KNOW no-one else will back them up.
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Afghan Dave

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #64 on: December 18, 2011, 07:37:05 PM »

Taking a much less serious situation as an example, it's amazing how one person can sit and annoy everyone on a bus by playing loud music on their phone - no-one else wants to hear it, but no-one will ask them to turn it down.... because they KNOW no-one else will back them up.

That is a MASSIVE sore point for me... I can't stand the practice and the social issolation that allows it to happen.



So, what if I'm on that train trying to get to my hospital appointment or my pregnant wife rang and needs me home ASAP?

I should sit there while a single person puts himself before EVERYONE else?

BTW - I've actually been the guy who lost his ticket when drunk after a stag night and I got off the train to go through all my bags till I found it and got on the next train!

I'm not going to get drawn into this thread but I feel some of the posters here have got the society they deserve.
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Chris

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2011, 07:58:20 PM »

Taking a much less serious situation as an example, it's amazing how one person can sit and annoy everyone on a bus by playing loud music on their phone - no-one else wants to hear it, but no-one will ask them to turn it down.... because they KNOW no-one else will back them up.

That is a MASSIVE sore point for me... I can't stand the practice and the social issolation that allows it to happen.



So, what if I'm on that train trying to get to my hospital appointment or my pregnant wife rang and needs me home ASAP?

I should sit there while a single person puts himself before EVERYONE else?
No, you should get home or to the hospital as expected while the train carries on and the person causing the trouble is picked up by the police or the transport authority later, without you ever knowing about it.

BTW - I've actually been the guy who lost his ticket when drunk after a stag night and I got off the train to go through all my bags till I found it and got on the next train!

I'm not going to get drawn into this thread but I feel some of the posters here have got the society they deserve.
And I'm very happy about having this society where I'm less likely to be assaulted by some mindless vigilante and a conductor on a power trip, thanks.

I'm all for asking an inconsiderate youth to turn his music down, or stepping in when someone is putting other people in danger, but in this case the guy wasn't responding to requests and nobody was in danger - the train should have carried on and the guy should have been reported and sorted out later - this seems like a sensible protocol that should please all parties to me.

Dmoney

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2011, 09:48:39 PM »

Chris is talking a lot of sense.

nfe

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2011, 10:21:26 PM »
True story.

People seem to be really struggling to grasp that the youngster was not holding up the train nor inconveniencing anyone (bar himself, in the long run), the conductor was.

Dmoney

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2011, 10:55:23 PM »

After not witnessing anything crazy on a train for a long time... tonight changed all that. nothing major. minor scuffle.
Beer related nonsense. pff.

nfe

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2011, 07:13:34 PM »
So, Scotrail and BTP investigations have proven the chap WAS sold the wrong ticket and had paid for the journey. The conductor is suspended over his conduct in a separate incident.

Philly Q

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2011, 07:50:44 PM »
And now the "Big Man" is being charged with assault:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101

Sounds like the kid's not off the hook yet though.
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juansolo

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2011, 10:22:25 AM »
But again - that's the point.  It's about NOT WANTING to absolve myself from responsibility and handing that responsibility over to another (state/police/school etc). 

I'm not talking about kangaroo courts, stringing people up from lamp posts etc.  But I think that in so many ways it's up to us to take the lead in situations like that, not pass the responsibility to a dubious authority.

I think you're right, but if you take action on your own you risk various consequences - (a) being perceived as a violent thug yourself; (b) being seriously injured or even killed; (c) being prosecuted by the scrote or their family.

Does that sound cowardly?  Probably.

I think ideally we need to get back to a state of affairs which (perhaps) existed in the past, where the majority of people "just won't stand for it".   Then if you raised your voice in a situation like this, you could expect others to back you up - and hopefully strength of numbers would keep things relatively calm and ensure it never got to the point of physical action.

Whereas nowadays if someone actually stands up to a troublemaker, 99% of the rest of us will bury our heads in the sand and pretend we can't see or hear anything.  Or - even worse - treat it as some kind of entertainment to be filmed and posted on YouTube.  :|   

Taking a much less serious situation as an example, it's amazing how one person can sit and annoy everyone on a bus by playing loud music on their phone - no-one else wants to hear it, but no-one will ask them to turn it down.... because they KNOW no-one else will back them up.

The solution: The motor car.
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Philly Q

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2011, 10:51:58 AM »
The solution: The motor car.

(a) London traffic is dreadful, I'd hardly ever use the car.

(b) Even if I did, parking costs a fortune.

(c) Couldn't afford the insurance where I live (correction: wouldn't want to pay that much...)

(d) ........I can't actually drive.  :|
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FELINEGUITARS

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2011, 11:20:35 AM »
The solution: The motor car.

(a) London traffic is dreadful, I'd hardly ever use the car.

(b) Even if I did, parking costs a fortune.

(c) Couldn't afford the insurance where I live (correction: wouldn't want to pay that much...)

(d) ........I can't actually drive.  :|

A) You live in Streatham - and the standard of driving in Streatham and other South London areas in unbelievably bad
B) meh to owning a car in London
C) most other people in Streatham don't have insurance!
D) see C!


Okay I'm being a bit tongue in cheek , but there is a grain of truth there
And parts of North London are the same!
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juansolo

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Re: No ticket.....
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2011, 11:26:11 AM »
The solution: The motor car.


(a) London traffic is dreadful, I'd hardly ever use the car.

(b) Even if I did, parking costs a fortune.

(c) Couldn't afford the insurance where I live (correction: wouldn't want to pay that much...)

(d) ........I can't actually drive.  :|

Ah London, our little insular car averse utopia surrounded by the ring of evil (the M25).  You're screwed, sorry.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 11:44:05 AM by juansolo »
When you´re racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just pies.

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