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Author Topic: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?  (Read 48930 times)

shobet

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2011, 12:36:41 AM »
Shame.

Anyway I'll be starting 2012 by posting a picture of some huge great big tits.
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nfe

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2011, 12:40:35 AM »
He's not posted very often for a while though, has he? I thought he'd maybe just been bored of it.

If it's due to what he sees as "childish bickering" or whatever I think that's a bit sad. To me, the forum is vastly more interesting than it used to be when it could be very sycophantic and nicey nicey - just for the sake of not rocking the boat. Now we get semi-regular interesting debates, generally with at least a few people with pretty solid grounding in a topic, or at worst some considered opinions. Great, in my book.

Regards BKP's reputation being held in most esteem in the metal market, from what I see on the internet it would seem to be the case. But I think it's also true that it is likely that the majority of people who spend a lot of time on the net are young(er) - and of those that are right into music gear, they'll be far more likely to fall into the metal and hard rock camps than the jazz and blues. It'd be interesting to know how the different pickups sell - Warpig is always held up as the most popular, right?

FELINEGUITARS

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2011, 01:42:17 AM »
Shame.

Anyway I'll be starting 2012 by posting a picture of some huge great big tits.


Nice!


If it's due to what he sees as "childish bickering" or whatever I think that's a bit sad.
To me, the forum is vastly more interesting than it used to be when it could be very sycophantic and nicey nicey - just for the sake of not rocking the boat.
Now we get semi-regular interesting debates, generally with at least a few people with pretty solid grounding in a topic, or at worst some considered opinions. Great, in my book.



Yes - but one persons idea of somewhere to engage in healthy, but heated debate is another person's idea of hell.

Quote
My background on that issue:
7 years ago I spent a hellish couple of years dating someone who had once been "queen of her school debating team", and she thrived on having a differing viewpoint and taking people to task in a political style debate:
 If the other person raised a valid argument or salient points - rather than mull over those ideas with a chance of being "enriched" by the new info and maybe altering aspects of her outlook, she simply looked for ways to undermine her "opponent" in any way she could and wasn't frightened of researching her opponent to find weaknesses to pick upon (she would have made a good lawyer like the ones you see in TV dramas) or find a way to prove the fallacy of your view.
She would wage war on the other person via blogs, forums, social media and suchlike - all in the name of sport.
She is a bit like marmite wherever she goes - some people love her as she brings drama with her, and others $%&#ing hate her with a passion.
Even those that liked her can get converted the other way if she decides to make them the subject of her laser-guided wrath.
Having been a psychological punchbag a few times too often maybe I'm just a bit allergic to people wanting to strike up a debate for the sake of it. There is nothing wrong with debate as such but my life has enough drama without it.

Using the "pub" analogy that often gets used to describe this place:
If I went to a pub and one of the regulars regularly made the place feel uptight and tense with his need for debate and drama, I might feel the need to go to a different pub if I wasn't able to ignore the atmosphere he created.
If it were my "regular" boozer where I had been a barfly for years , I might feel inclined to have a word i his ear if I felt driven out by the 'argy-bargy' - or more than likely to have a word in the ear of the landlord.

I may be alone in feeling that I preferred it without the added tension, but then again I may not be.

Lately it has gotten a bit predictable:

At one time you could post a pic of a tele and think - Uh oh - just wait till Roo sees that - there will be hell to pay.
Or post a link to Phil X without saying it's him and have PhillyQ  get in a strop about it

Lately I have on a few occasions thought: I dread NFE seeing a particular thread as it will just turn into a highbrow head butting contest.

You are actually very good at debating and returning a structured argument, you know stuff or research it well.
Anyone wanting to see what I mean can follow the link to your responses to one subject here on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/user/nfe?feature=watch

Reflecting upon my views even as I type this I can see that you don't go to similar extremes that my ex did, but I think I am still allergic to being around too much debate.
Maybe I l have looked at the BKP forum for the longest time as somewhere where I had been used to coming to kick back, relax and chill, whilst discussing guitar sounds, and not having fierce debate raging around me .

Maybe I am in a minority here and others would prefer a more vigorous debating platform here at BKP.

If that were to be the case and the forum drifted in that direction maybe I too would be like Ben and quote Duncan Bannatyne from Dragon's Den with the words "I'm Out"

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Kiichi

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2011, 02:04:42 AM »
Now this is just a thought, but is it not understandable that BKP is developing more modern pickups? (if that is even the case, Tim might just happen to have those ideas right now without any intention).
When you ask yourself: What has not been done in the vintage area and what has not been done in the modern area it kinda makes sense to me.
The only one that comes to mind when thinking about doing vintage differently is Uli Teuffel, a guitar builder from germany. I posted a spotlight on him here too, look it up.
But back to topic: What I am saying is that there does not have to be intend on Tims side for the current BKP direction being more modern. Might just as well go completly vintage after the Blackhawk for all we know.

Still seing Denim go is sad, one would have hoped that stepping down as an admin would have sufficed. I really liked his advice.

About the tone on this forum: There might be some things falling out here and it might be worse than in previous years (I would not know), but it is still miles ahead of any other forum I ever visited. The way I was treated here made me wanne stay and now I love this place.
The key is leading by example there are several core people who do that greatly. They have drawn me in and I hope to one day be able to replace them ;)

@Feline: I too am looking more for a place where you can exchange ideas and experiences in a manner of colaboration than debate.
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Twinfan

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2011, 08:04:26 AM »
Those discussions about politics/religion/social issues do get pretty heated, but I think they (generally) remain true debates rather than trading insults.  And they're easy to ignore if they're not of interest.  Once nfe and a few others roll out their big intellectual guns, it reaches a point where I no longer understand what they're talking about so I just tune out....

You and me both Phil!  :lol:

I think in general we have a good range of views and respect for each other here on the forum, and only now and again does it go a bit wrong.  It's been a tough year or two, so maybe frustrations are affecting the way people post.  Lets hope 2012 is a better year for everyone and the mood lightens  :)

At the very least we know you'll end up with more parts than you know what to do with, and I'll swear I'm not going to do something and then go ahead and do it  :lol:

38thBeatle

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2011, 08:11:53 AM »
I have no idea if/when Ben has opted out but  he always struck me as a man with opinions and one not to mess around and I wouldn't be surprised if he did decide to go. Of course he could have decided to move on for no particular reason but if I may "speak" for myself, I have questioned my own involvement of late but there are enough of the reasons for me to stick around .....but: I too have noticed the tendency of threads becoming lengthy debates sometimes somewhat heated with an unpleasant edge.. Fortunately most seem polite and civilized but I have more than enough drama in my life and I come here to keep up to date with what is going on in the world of BKP, and to help out if with an opinion on BKPs if I can- and to read what folk are expressing....but I never get involved in the religious/political/controversial stuff. I did once and I was offended by a regular here who misunderstood something I said.I could and probably should have responded to clarify but chose not to and it did change my attitude towards the forum but not enough to make me want to go but it was close. I just decided that if I want to take part in a fight, I always prefer face to face rather than get into a war of words with someone I can't possibly know. Where I can't pickup the nuances of what they are "saying" (emoticons notwithstanding)
I wouldn't say that things have deteriorated to childish bickering but I do skip over some of the threads and I stay out of them. I certainly post a lot less and I adopt the view that if you have nothing good to say then don't say it. A recent thread is the epitome of what I would avoid as I could see where it would lead but it isn't down to me what is posted fortunately so I just skip it.
Jonathan has expressed very well a view that is very similar to mine. I hope Ben comes back but I am sure he can speak for himself if he chooses to and it will be a matter of whether he still reads what is said and whether he feels that he wants to respond. I think we may already have our answer.
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Twinfan

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2011, 08:24:56 AM »
Is it time those long debating threads were stopped, for the good of the forum?  If it's not helping Tim sell pickups, or possibly turning off current and future users of the forum, should they be reported to the mods to be deleted?

I've been guilty of getting sucked into them a couple of times when I wish I hadn't  :(

Philly Q

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2011, 08:48:15 AM »
I think in general we have a good range of views and respect for each other here on the forum, and only now and again does it go a bit wrong.  It's been a tough year or two, so maybe frustrations are affecting the way people post.  Lets hope 2012 is a better year for everyone and the mood lightens  :)

At the very least we know you'll end up with more parts than you know what to do with, and I'll swear I'm not going to do something and then go ahead and do it  :lol:

Both good points!  :lol:


If that were to be the case and the forum drifted in that direction maybe I too would be like Ben and quote Duncan Bannatyne from Dragon's Den with the words "I'm Out"

I certainly hope you don't!  :(


I personally enjoy the threads where we go off on silly tangents and have ludicrous (and non-serious) off-topic discussions.  I've often suspected Ben may have found that type of thing irritating.  In which case I apologise (but I'm not saying I'll stop doing it  :P ).
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

juansolo

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2011, 08:58:32 AM »
Personally this is the only guitar forum I regularly visit and post to. It has a very, very good signal/noise ratio and a lot of good people on it...

...and shobet is going to post a picture of some great big tits.
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MrBump

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2011, 09:01:05 AM »
Yeah, this is still a calmer place than most "opinionated" forums.  I don't visit any others these days (TDPRI occasionally).

I don't think that we're too bad.  We have characters on here, but there's very little malicious talk.  For those of us that have been around for a while - we all know who's going to react to certain topics, right?  I find many of the rants amusing and occasionally informative.  I'm sure that we all throw our hands up in exasperation on occasion, but we can generally finish a heated thread on good terms.

People come and go.  This place still has something to offer.  Contentious posts can always be avoided.

Mark.
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MrBump

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2011, 09:02:53 AM »
... and to preempt Shobert - tits.
BKPs Past and Present - Nailbombs, Mules, Blackguard Flat 50's, VHII's & Trilogy Suite with Neck & Bridge Baseplates!

juansolo

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2011, 09:10:34 AM »
three tits!

AWESOME

/Paul
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Frank

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2011, 09:33:30 AM »
I also closed my account here and stopped posting for a while before returning. Forums can get you down after a while and I needed a break from posting on the internet.

Andrew W

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2011, 09:35:13 AM »
Very sad to see Denim and Leather go as his opinion was always one that I respected very highly. If it is because of the more contentious threads lately then that is indeed a shame.

I've always felt, and this is just me, that on a guitar related forum if someone says something stupid and insulting (in my opinion) then I trust that most of the other forumites have probably rolled their eyes also because I hope and believe that they're sensible folk. Furthermore, because the Internet is so lacking in nuance and context, having a proper debate is nigh on impossible (again, in my opinion) which puts me off engaging on forums in general. On the few occasions where I've felt I wanted to support, or needed to disagree with, something controversial that someone's posted, I've sent them a direct message to that effect. That works for me.

I've also noticed the shift in emphasis toward focusing on more modern humbucking pickups across the board. That's a shame for me as it's not a topic on which I really have an opinion, but I don't see as it's bad for the board if it's still active and full of people helping one another - it just won't be me.

If anyone knows Denim and Leather in the non-forum world, please send him my best and thank him for the input and advice over the years.

Afghan Dave

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Re: What has happened to Ben / Denim & Leather/Twilight Odyssey ?
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2011, 10:09:13 AM »

I personally enjoy the threads where we go off on silly tangents and have ludicrous (and non-serious) off-topic discussions.  I've often suspected Ben may have found that type of thing irritating.  In which case I apologise (but I'm not saying I'll stop doing it  :P ).


That's the bit I like... I'm pretty "meat & potatos" in my opinions & my tastes but I've found it hard to staddle the fine line between "looking & eye-rolling" & "enabling via participation" ...

I'm most happy hanging out on the Rock Ballads + Crushes threads until a serious question I can answer comes up.

I don't know or care about "Djent" or the salami slices of "Death/doom/Blood on Cat's Vulva" metal.

If it's got a tune, play it... If girls can dance to it, more the better!



Go on ask me one about the 80s/90s..  :P
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