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Author Topic: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.  (Read 8197 times)

Johnny Mac

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Philly Q

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2012, 11:22:13 PM »
Simply the best!  :D

I think he was at his peak there in the mid-'70s.  Some top-quality gurning too.

And what a wonderful singer Jimmy Dewar (RIP) was, despite his less-than-lively stage presence.
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MrBump

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2012, 06:43:17 AM »
Good stuff.
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WhiteRam

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2012, 07:44:42 AM »
Simply the best!  :D

I think he was at his peak there in the mid-'70s.  Some top-quality gurning too.

And what a wonderful singer Jimmy Dewar (RIP) was, despite his less-than-lively stage presence.

+1 !!

Great to hear that from you Philly. :D

To this day I've never heard anything as moving or beautiful than the version of 'Daydream' on the Live album recorded in 1975 Stockholm Sweden, released 1976.  He was so on that night it's surreal really, the entire album.

He's my #1 of all who have ever played the instrument.
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Philly Q

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2012, 10:47:16 AM »
To this day I've never heard anything as moving or beautiful than the version of 'Daydream' on the Live album recorded in 1975 Stockholm Sweden, released 1976.  He was so on that night it's surreal really, the entire album.

If I had to name my favourite album of all time, Robin Trower Live! would be it.

I've listened to it countless times over the last 30-odd years, but it always makes me feel happy (which isn't easy for a miserable git like me...)  :D
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AndyR

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2012, 11:40:10 AM »
Yep, Robin Trower Live is up there for me as well...

And I love James Dewar's voice (btw, years ago, when I first heard them, I was actually quite disappointed when I found out that it wasn't Robin Trower singing - that guitar playing and voice in one person would have been amazing, and possibly slightly unfair on the rest of us!)
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Philly Q

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2012, 12:39:56 PM »
btw, years ago, when I first heard them, I was actually quite disappointed when I found out that it wasn't Robin Trower singing - that guitar playing and voice in one person would have been amazing, and possibly slightly unfair on the rest of us!

Trower has recorded a few lead vocals - notably on the What Lies Beneath album, which I think he described as a Robin Trower solo album rather than a "Robin Trower the band" album (remember how the old records used to say "Robin Trower is:" and then list the band members? :D )

He's no great shakes as a singer, so I guess that redresses the balance.  :lol:

There are some great guitarists who are also great singers though.  Richie Kotzen is absolutely bloody amazing.  Jonny Lang.  Dave Meniketti.  Your man Rory wasn't half bad.  And maybe I'm a bit biased on this one, but Andy Powell has become better and better as a singer/frontman over the years.
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AndyR

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2012, 01:20:04 PM »
You're right about Andy Powell (or, at least my experience of him x years ago). I saw them on the first tour after Martin Turner left (Trevor Bolder on bass, Andy P took most of the lead vocals). They weren't a patch on the Wishbone Ash of the year before - mainly in the vocal area. Then I saw them years later on that reunion tour where they did half the gig with the "current" band and then wheeled out Ted Turner for the original line-up. Andy P's vocals were the best that night (although I hear rumour that Martin Turner was a little "worse-for-wear" on that tour).

But there aren't many guitarist/singers who are great at both. I think it's something to do with the amount of effort you have to put in to get a "voice" on your chosen instrument - you haven't really got the time/energy to develop both. But Andy P (and others) shows that if you just keep doing it, you'll end up with a "better" voice anyway.

James Dewar was something special, though. I personally think it's harder to sing and play bass (rather than the guitar), but more than that, he had to put in a lot of work to find and hone that voice. Most people playing an instrument would just settle for whatever comes out of the gob and put up with it (I think Rory was in that class - sounds like his brain was working "guitar with vocals on the back burner" - but he still came out pretty good). The way James Dewar sang, he had to be working "vocals with guitar on the back burner" (which is what a singing teacher taught me to do - "you have to perform the song, the guitar will play itself").

When I first heard Robin Trower with the Dewar vocals, I really thought I'd found the almost unbelievable, my two favourite instruments combined... but... alas, no...

Funnily enough, all of my favourite/best singer-guitarists are bassists (Mr Dewar, Phil Lynnot, Jack Bruce, Geddy Lee, Paul McCartney). The six-stringers I regard more as guitarists who can do a lead vocal job (I've not actually heard Richie Kotzen - so I might be missing something there!) - the possible exception is Mr Hendrix, but I regard him as a bit different anyway - he didn't seem to have a back-burner, both guitar and vocals were full-on in a laid-back way...

Anyway, I think I might be listening to some Robin Trower when I get home :D
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 01:23:08 PM by AndyR »
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Philly Q

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2012, 01:43:31 PM »
Funnily enough, all of my favourite/best singer-guitarists are bassists (Mr Dewar, Phil Lynnot, Jack Bruce, Geddy Lee, Paul McCartney). The six-stringers I regard more as guitarists who can do a lead vocal job (I've not actually heard Richie Kotzen - so I might be missing something there!) - the possible exception is Mr Hendrix, but I regard him as a bit different anyway - he didn't seem to have a back-burner, both guitar and vocals were full-on in a laid-back way...

Yeah, I deliberately didn't mention Hendrix because I didn't want to open that can-of-worms debate about whether he was a great singer or not.  Personally I think he was.  :D

I doubt Richie Kotzen would be your cup of tea, but he is a fantastic singer - that said, I've not seen him live so I don't know how well he combines his vocal/guitar duties in that situation.

Very interesting what you said about the relative difficulties of playing bass or guitar when singing.  I suppose it's something to do with the fact that both vocal and guitar are - to a large extent - carrying the "tune", whereas with bass you're simultaneously trying to sing the melody but be part of the rhythm section?
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AndyR

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2012, 02:13:05 PM »
I think, for folks like Rory (and me, the way I did it), the guitar parts while you're singing are very easy/automated. You are just strumming some tastful accompaniment - the less you put in, the easier, and probably better it gets. And then you learn a few tricks to slot in between lines - make it seamless enough and everyone thinks you're playing complicated guff all the way through...

But, like you say, the bassist is part of the rhythm section and is usually playing a single note line that MUST NOT HESITATE... with a lot of music, the guitarist can get away with sloppy rhythm on most of the chords, if the bassist waivers in most music, the whole band starts sounding tentative (at best).

However, most singer-bassists (eg Sting) do have very simple bass parts under the vocals - I partly want to listen to Robin Trower tonight to check James Dewar's bass playing out. Even Jack Bruce's seemingly interesting bass parts seem to have been built for easy sing-a-long. I can't play Phil Lynnot parts and sing his lines, though - something to do with how the rhythms work. It was obviously easy for him, watching film of him, but I can't keep it going...

And then Geddy Lee - he's like two different people simultaneously. Early Rush stuff, the bass is complicated, but his vocal is following it. Later Rush stuff, how the f@ck does he do it!!! :lol: (and I'm talking about live footage here).


To anyone trying to figure out how to sing and play - I believe the trick is to concentrate on the singing first - that's what the general punter is listening to. You have to sing with a certain amount of conviction, if your mind is worrying about playing the guitar right, your voice sounds like an afterthought and the audience doesn't buy in to the performance as much as they could. So while you're working the vocal up, you have to look at the guitar part and cut out the clever sh1t you thought you were going to play... you have to be able to play that part blind (and possibly without being able to "hear" it), so don't be too ambitious. Figure out the minimum you can guarantee, learn that and concentrate on the vocal during the gig. Later, with experience and bravado you can start feeling/behaving like Jimi Hendrix, where the vocal and guitar are part of one thing coming from one person - but you can't do that without a lot of self-confidence, and you won't build any of that up by being over-ambitious early on and messing it up in front of people!
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gwEm

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2012, 03:28:06 PM »
the material originally linked to is absolutely fantastic!! just my cup of tea :)
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Tellboy

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2012, 06:55:04 PM »
(I've not actually heard Richie Kotzen - so I might be missing something there!)

Scarily talented - he's also playing bass and drums in this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhCqEfkKa5s
and here looking like Jack Sparrow singing All Along The Watchtower: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2YJ_VHm_Zg

I saw him live when Cornford did a promo gig for his signature amp in Exeter. (he also has a signature Tele and Strat)

I'm also a big Trower/Dewar fan!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 07:29:32 PM by Tellboy »
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Telerocker

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2012, 12:11:51 AM »
Yeah I admire his skills and talent. Fantastic stuff.
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WhiteRam

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2012, 01:57:35 AM »
To this day I've never heard anything as moving or beautiful than the version of 'Daydream' on the Live album recorded in 1975 Stockholm Sweden, released 1976.  He was so on that night it's surreal really, the entire album.

If I had to name my favourite album of all time, Robin Trower Live! would be it.

I've listened to it countless times over the last 30-odd years, but it always makes me feel happy (which isn't easy for a miserable git like me...)  :D

Wow...drinks and dinner on me Philly when I sail across the pond, would be a pleasure to sit back and chat over things.

To the OP and all on this thread...it's a great feeling to know how much Dewar recognition and gratitude there is, and for the whole Trower journey too.

Blaze on mates. :)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 02:00:09 AM by WhiteRam »
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lulusg

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Re: A few Marshalls, a 70's Strat, a wah & a good guitarist.
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2012, 03:20:08 AM »
20 +yrs since I heard this live version, Daydreamer... just listened to it now and I still remember every single note coming from the guitar... the anticipation.. the details, the voice as if I was there...I was totally into it, seeing them live now was like I imagined they would be, their gestures and everything.... interesting... Thanks for the post and the good reads too!!
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