Theoretical amp question

[Slartibartfarst42]

First of all, I should make it clear that I am not looking at changing my amp at all but I did start thinking of this question the other day when I was mulling over what I'd do if/when my current band folds. I can't say I'm inclined to put another one together as it does take quite a time to get 4/5 people together and develop a set. I suppose I'd become a bedroom player with perhaps the odd bit with an audience. If/when this happens, I wouldn't keep my existing amp as it's far too much just for the home but what do you get for home use that gives quality tones at reasonable volumes? It seems to me there are a few options:

Valve amps

Obviously the best tones are valves so my first thought was that I'd go for a valve amp of lower power but doing this would have restrictions. Getting a valve amp of low enough power to give you great tones in the bedroom would be useless if you ever wanted to do something live and you'd still need a number of pedals to tweak your tone. On top of that, you don't have the option of playing with headphones.

Hybrid modelling amps

Loads of tones available and there are a lot of effects built in as well so in some respects they seem ideal but I imagine that on the better ones, you'd have the same volume problem as a full valve amp so how much do you actually gain? It's a bit more compact as the effects are built in it but surely that's all or am I wrong and they actually behave at volume more like a SS amp?

Solid state modelling amps

I can obviously see the appeal in these as you have loads of tones, plenty effects, a headphone socket, computer interface and the ability to achieve decent tones at low volumes. The problem is that once you're used to valves, my experience of them is generally very poor. A colleague of mine at work uses a Peavey Vypyr 30w and it's not a bad amp at all. It's commonly touted as being the best but compared to the amp I have now, it's really awful and I'm not sure I could live with it.

Floor modeller into FRFR

Very few people seem to consider these as an alternative but the reason I mention it is that I think (I may be wrong) that the main problem with a modelling amp is the cabinet it's all housed in. I say this because years ago I had a Digitech GNX3000 and through headphones it was fantastic. Everything you could want in a very compact package but the problem always arose when you wanted to amplify it. Through a normal guitar amp it was awful but I remember I was impressed when I tried it through a Mackie powered speaker so perhaps that would represent an option: a decent floor modeller with a decent FRFR powered speaker (or seperate amp and speaker) if you wanted to play loud. Perhaps even a valve power amp linked to a neutral speaker would give it more valve warmth.

I should point out that I haven't used any of these alternatives for many years so perhaps the technology has improved a lot and of course, other options may be available of which I'm not aware. The bottom line is that if you weren't in a band and you wanted to play a variety of styles at home without disturbing everyone or breaking the bank but wanted to retain really good quality tones, what would you do?

[Twinfan]

Buy the valve amp you like the tone of and use a combination of master volume/attenuator.  Nothing else comes close for my ears.

I use a Bogner XTC Classic quite happily at home.

[Slartibartfarst42]

That was certainly my first thought and I stress, this is only theoretical at this stage, but my experiences with valve amps made me think twice. My previous DSL401 wasn't too bad at bedroom volumes and was passable live but didn't have quite the headroom. My current amp is 50w and only seems to do loud. That's fine for now as I play in a band but it simply wouldn't be practical if I mostly played in the home. The problem seems to be that for the home, a 5w or 10w amp is all that's needed but those amps wouldn't be powerful enough for any kind of live environment and even then, you'd still need a bunch of pedals. A more 'all-in-one' solution would clearly be preferable for those playing mainly in the home but from what you're saying, despite advances in technology, all of the options are still simply awful when compared to valves.

[Twinfan]

I've not played an Axe FX, so I can't say how good they are, but for the price you can a seriously nice valve amp.  I only need one core tone with a variety of gain levels, so a nice valve amp does me just fine.

All you'll really need is your 50w head, an attenuator and a pedal for home use - some sort of overdrive will compensate for the lack of drive at lower levels and the attenuator will let the amp breathe a little bit.

I would keep whatever live rig you have if your band ends, and just make it home-worthy, in case you need to join a band again  :)

[TheyCallMeVolume]

I've not played an Axe FX, so I can't say how good they are, but for the price you can a seriously nice valve amp.  I only need one core tone with a variety of gain levels, so a nice valve amp does me just fine.

All you'll really need is your 50w head, an attenuator and a pedal for home use - some sort of overdrive will compensate for the lack of drive at lower levels and the attenuator will let the amp breathe a little bit.

I would keep whatever live rig you have if your band ends, and just make it home-worthy, in case you need to join a band again  :)

I agree with this. I've known alot of people who have sold their gigging rigs for home use when they were bandless,  only to be in a bit of a jam when they suddenly come up with a gig!

[Toe-Knee]

I would also suggest a valve amp.

Nothing comes close in my opinion.

I use a 50w SLO at home with no attenuator in an apartment building and havent had any complaints.

All you need is an amp thats voiced well and you should be good to go.

[Frank]

Buy a valve amp

[BigB]

Really depends on what "bedroom level" means to you... Living in an old house in a small town with rather friendly neighbours, my own bedroom level (litteraly) is only a couple Db less than rehearsal / small gig level.

If you can crank your amp a bit, something in the 15/22w range with a good master volume and/or a decent attenuator will work fine for home and is usually enough for gigging. Else, the best _real_ bedroom level (not louder than a cheap acoustic guitar) tone I got was using my (6V6s modded, IOW a 22watters) HRDx thru a palmer PDI. Not as good as going thru a cab, but better than trying to get the same cranked tone at the same volume using an attenuator and cab.

Hybrid modelling amps... well, I have to admit the Vox VT30 is very far from bad _for a cheap, hybrid amp_. It's something I could use for home practice (nb: it does have a builtin "attenuator" that let you "crank" the amp at low volume), but it doesn't stand an A/B test vs a true tube amp.

pods etc, sorry, not for me, call me a corksniffer if you want but there's something so organic with true tubes that you won't get with anything else - possibly no one else but you will tell the difference, but YOU will tell and that's enough.

To make a long story short, if I had to make my rig usable at "real" bedroom level, I'd certainly stick to a 22watters and buy a palmer PDI - it's not perfect but it's the best compromise I found so far.

My 2 cents...

[Kiichi]

I must add that it is indeed possible to use a valve amp with headphones. There are those with a headphone out (e.g. the Vox little nighttrain I believe), you can get for example a custom HTH amp (Ian could certainly add a headphone out I believe) or use an attentuator that has a headphone out (the Weber Mass series has this as an option for example).

[Telerocker]

Buy The Valve Bimbo 5 watt with powerscaling to whisperlevel.

Demo with Carl Verheyen on Gibson SG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSsPorSlfQg

[Slartibartfarst42]

My amp at the moment has 4 channels and multiple presets but it really is VERY loud and doesn't work at all well in the home so I think I'd be inclined to change the amp and as long as I had a way of boosting the volume for a solo I think I could work around most things if it had a good drive channel. I'm guessing at least a 2 channel amp would be needed and I think to get the most flexibility I'd be inclined to go for a 'half-way house' approach so I'd sell my existing amp and all the pedals and get something like a Jet City, Blackstar or maybe a Peavey Classic. I'd then get something like a Digitech RP1000 for all of my effects so that I had the flexibility of using it by itself in the home as well as connecting it to a live rig.

[bucketshred]

Buy a JCM800.

Be Happy.

[dave_mc]

Buy the valve amp you like the tone of and use a combination of master volume/attenuator.  Nothing else comes close for my ears.

+1

that being said, it does depend on what your "bedroom volume" is, as BigB said, as that'll be different for many people. While I'm nowhere near cranked, i can get up to "fills the room" levels which is where things start sounding pretty good. if you're at whisper volume, not so much.

[hunter]

Buy a valve amp for the band, and if it's too loud, buy a little Roland for the home, they are cheap and sound great!