Pickup recommendation for a Gibson SG faded?

[casual yellow]

I'm looking into swapping out the pickups in my Gibson SG faded (specs can be found here http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-Faded-SG-Special-Electric-Guitar-102935921-i1149235.gc) because the stock 490's are too thin sounding and trebley for my taste. I play mostly classic rock, blues, and hard rock, and I'm looking for a warm, aggressive, heavy sounding pickup. Any suggestions?

[Telerocker]

RiffRaffs are a great match for any SG.

[ericsabbath]

vhII's
if you got the knob-rolling skills, you might enjoy an alnico warpig

[TheyCallMeVolume]

Gotta go RR

[Mr. Air]

Riff Raffs are normaly the "go to" pickup in a SG and they're more than a one trick pony. I think they'll suit you.

[Miracle Man]

It's funny how people on this forum immediately think of Riff Raffs as soon as someone mentiones SGs  :lol: I mean, it's a great pickup of course, but it's not the only option and it this case it might not be the right choice. The OP says the stock pickups are bright an thin so perhaps he's looking for a fatter sound. No doubt RRs are fantastic but they are very bright and not exactly what I'd call fat sounding. So maybe the VHIIs Eric suggested might be a better choice.

Some more info from the OP would also help (example of sounds he likes, amp, pedals...)  :)

[AndyR]

I've got Riff Raffs in a Faded, and I also reckon that they're what you want for the music styles you mention (quite close to what I use them for).

I'd better tell you this though - if you replace the stocks with Riff Raffs, the RRs will not initially seem less "trebly". My memory of the change was they were as bright as the pickups they were replacing. What they did address was "thin" - they added a bit more punch and, like all BKPs I've experienced, they added a touch more "clarity".

The other thing is, I selected the guitar for the pickups, which I already had. I tried several of them before I picked this one. Acoustically it had a louder, warmer, more resonant tone than the others. Some of the others sounded (to me) quite brittle and without much body. Riff Raffs in those wouldn't quite have done it for me.

Even though I already had the pickups, I do sometimes wonder whether Stormy Mondays might be better for what I want - I understand that they do nice raunchy/rock. But having said that, I do use the volumes and tones a lot, and I can get the Riff Raffs in this guitar to sound smoother and more mellow - think the Allman Brothers stuff off Live at the Fillmore East (which is what I think the reference is for the "Stormy Monday" pickup name), or even Paul Kossoff's live tones. Another one it does nicely is Eric Clapton's Beano tone. And then when I want to go off into Angus and Malcolm territory, I just open up the guitar controls and I'm away. I have even used the guitar for stuff I'd regard as more "metal".

Overall, as long as you haven't got an overly bright and thin sounding Faded, I think Riff Raffs will do you very well. If you have a bright/thin one, then I think you possibly might need more advice (maybe contact BKP themselves?)

EDIT: Welcome to the forum, by the way! :D

[casual yellow]

Hey guys, thanks for all the help so far. I don't find that my faded is too bright or thin on its own. I also bought the guitar because It seemed to be more resonant and warm unplugged and I love the look and feel  :)

So, I still feel that the pickups are the problem. To answer Troy's questions, I'm running the SG into a Marshall JVM 410 head and about 30 some pedals (I'm addicted to gear  :) ). I have more than enough tonal flexibility to dial in several tones that I would consider "good" and useable, but I still find the SG, of all my guitars, to be lacking. As I originally mentioned, it just doesn't sound as full or rounded as I would like.

I should probably rephrase slightly and say that I'm looking to tame the treble somewhat, not completely eliminate it. I would really be interested in a more punchy, warm tone, but still aggressive and bright enough to get my Angus on.

Some sounds I like would be AC/DC obviously, slash, zakk wylde's heavy rhythm tone, van halen, and motley Crüe.

I'm also really liking steel panther's sound like in this clip (nsfw):

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o6hoXCyg0u4

Also, I think buckethead has incredible tone like in this clip:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFoBbNHvOME

Thanks again for the help guys! And thanks for the welcome Andy!

[BigB]

I'm running the SG into a Marshall JVM 410 head and about 30 some pedals (I'm addicted to gear  :) )

Ain't that a bit much ?-)

As I originally mentioned, it just doesn't sound as full or rounded as I would like.

I should probably rephrase slightly and say that I'm looking to tame the treble somewhat, not completely eliminate it. I would really be interested in a more punchy, warm tone, but still aggressive and bright enough to get my Angus on.

"taming the trebles" / "warm tone" : this is mostly done by using your neck PU or rolling down the trebles on the bridge PU. For the later this imply having a usable tone control, which is usually not the case with the stock caps and wiring. For what you mention, PIO caps might help, with either a treble bleed (not a fan as far as I'm concerned but I'll probably give it another try - with better components and values - now I've learned a bit about electronics) or gibson 50s wiring.

RR are quite punchy, can be agressive (bridge PU and tone/volume full cranked), and warm up nicely (bridge PU with the tone rolled down, or neck PU which is very clear - almost has some single-coilish quality - and well balanced with the bridge), but I'm not yet sure the bridge RR is really what you want since they are really bright.  Perhaps a Black Dog bridge / RR neck would work better for you, but the SGs are known to be somewhat picky about pickups (lame pun intented), specially with mid-output ones.

Just my 2 cents...

[casual yellow]

"taming the trebles" / "warm tone" : this is mostly done by using your neck PU or rolling down the trebles on the bridge PU. For the later this imply having a usable tone control, which is usually not the case with the stock caps and wiring. For what you mention, PIO caps might help, with either a treble bleed (not a fan as far as I'm concerned but I'll probably give it another try - with better components and values - now I've learned a bit about electronics) or gibson 50s wiring.

RR are quite punchy, can be agressive (bridge PU and tone/volume full cranked), and warm up nicely (bridge PU with the tone rolled down, or neck PU which is very clear - almost has some single-coilish quality - and well balanced with the bridge), but I'm not yet sure the bridge RR is really what you want since they are really bright.  Perhaps a Black Dog bridge / RR neck would work better for you, but the SGs are known to be somewhat picky about pickups (lame pun intented), specially with mid-output ones.

Just my 2 cents...

Alright, so I am apparently very bad at describing what I'm looking to fix by swapping pickups  :P

I guess the biggest thing is replacing the "thin" tone that the stock pickups give me with a fuller sounding and punchier set. The stocks are also bright for my taste, but as you said, I can overcome that by using tone controls, neck pup, etc. but I would still prefer pups that are overall a little less bright.

Also, besides replacing the pups, I am going to replace all the wiring as well.

So, as far as pups go, I am strongly considering the riff raffs, the vhIIs, mules, holy divers, or possibly a combo of these pickups (for example, a riff raff in the neck and a vhII in the bridge). Could someone explain the differences in these pickups better than the basic descriptions on BKPs site?

Also, I contacted BKP and they recommended a riffraff in the bridge and a mule in the neck. Thoughts?

[ericsabbath]

I should probably rephrase slightly and say that I'm looking to tame the treble somewhat, not completely eliminate it. I would really be interested in a more punchy, warm tone, but still aggressive and bright enough to get my Angus on.

Some sounds I like would be AC/DC obviously, slash, zakk wylde's heavy rhythm tone, van halen, and motley Crüe.

I'm also really liking steel panther's sound like in this clip (nsfw):

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o6hoXCyg0u4

Also, I think buckethead has incredible tone like in this clip:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFoBbNHvOME

VHII should work perfectly
it's a lot like the riff raff, but hotter wound and has a longer magnet, so it's a little higher output, and thicker sounding
the holy diver doesn't sound good in SGs, for some reason
black dog might work or not
it's a thick sounding pickup, but can sound too soft in some guitars

[BigB]

Alright, so I am apparently very bad at describing what I'm looking to fix by swapping pickups  :P

I've seen worse ;)

I guess the biggest thing is replacing the "thin" tone that the stock pickups give me with a fuller sounding and punchier set. The stocks are also bright for my taste, but as you said, I can overcome that by using tone controls, neck pup, etc. but I would still prefer pups that are overall a little less bright.

I don' have much experience with your stock pups, but BKPs are usually rather clear and defined, and the RR are rather on the bright side. Not that they sound brittle or thin or harsh in any way, but they are definitly not dark.

So, as far as pups go, I am strongly considering the riff raffs, the vhIIs, mules, holy divers, or possibly a combo of these pickups (for example, a riff raff in the neck and a vhII in the bridge). Could someone explain the differences in these pickups better than the basic descriptions on BKPs site?

I have never played a VHII nor a HD, and only know the neck Mule so I'll leave the answer to someone else.

Also, I contacted BKP and they recommended a riffraff in the bridge and a mule in the neck. Thoughts?

Well, this is a proven, well-known, working combo but... From your posts here, I'd rather go with a RR neck and something a bit warmer/darker on the bridge - BUT SGs and warm, mid-output pickups is not a safe bet - either a hit or miss, and you won't know until you hear it.

Sorry if this don't really help. Perhaps you should post a clip with your current rig so we know what we're talking about, in the end the RR set might as well be just right for you.

[casual yellow]

Alright guys,

After your recommendations and some more research, I'm strongly leaning towards a VHII in the bridge and a mule or riff raff in the neck. I think I'll probably end up going with the mule to get that really creamy neck pickup tone! I will post again once I decide, order and install them! Thanks!

[AndyR]

Don't want to confuse you too much (we all know how you feel! :lol:), but I still reckon that a Riff Raff bridge will do what you want.

This is based on (since I posted earlier) what you say about the guitar itself - "resonant and warm" - and hearing that BKP recommended the Riff Raff bridge themselves. It will be bright, but it's also got a nice focussed crunch/punch to it. Adjusting the amp appropriately it covers both the early and late Angus tones (and a lot of the Malcolm tones close enough, incidentally). There's quite a lot of brightness and clarity in those. Obviously you don't want too much coming out of the guitar, but you definitely want the brightness there in the first place.

Not sure about the neck myself. I tend to go for matched pairs, but I do know RR/Mule is a well-respected combo. And I do very much like Mules in my other guitars. I've never tried swapping the Mule into the neck of my Faded (and I won't be doing it in a hurry now that the pickup is plumbed into a 335 :lol:), but I have this thing nagging in the back of my mind that the neck pickup in an SG is in a different position in relation to the strings - there's a possibility that the Mule might not work so well for me in that position (it might, I just don't know really).

I suppose the bottom line for me is that I tend to think that if BKP recommend something, even if there's all sorts of other suggestions and doubts in my mind, you can't go that far wrong with the BKP recommendation.

[ericsabbath]

the riff raff is my favorite model, but I'd still go with the vhII, considering his objectives
and I wouldn't say a riff raff is thicker sounding than a 490t, although it sounds 20x better
maybe slightly bassier, but it has even more top and it's not middier at all, despite of the charts