PRS pickups

[Slartibartfarst42]

Forgive the long post but if I'm asking for advice and opinions it seems only reasonable to give as much info as possible.  :D OK, here's the deal. I have a Jackson SL3 with a Miracle Man and Trilogy Suites so that pretty much covers me for Metal. My other guitar is a PRS SE Custom 24 and that is the one I now want to give the BKP treatment to. Here's some of my criteria:

1) I don't need it to do the same as my Jackson but I do need it to be versatile as it is also a backup guitar for gigs so some ability to cover Metal OK would be nice.
2) I want this to be aimed primarily at covering songs up to the point where my Jackson will take over so I'm looking for great clear cleans, a beautiful Blues tone and some great Rock tones that will take a decent chunk of gain.
3) The tone should have real body to it, with punch.
4) The bridge should be crisp, articulate and have a bit of aggression to it. Just enough to give it a bit of bite.
5) The neck should be sweet and creamy. Think of early Dave Murray tone when he was using a PAF in the neck.
6) Between the bridge and neck pickups I'd like to cover the soft and sweet Blues based tones of Santana and the more aggressive, thick and crisp tones of Gary Moore.

Bridge Options

Holydiver - I know this pickup already and I like it. It will do the Rock tones really well, has a great lead tone which is important to me and cleans up OK, though not the most Bluesy of my options. Talking to Tim, he rates this one very highly with an Emerald in the neck for a good range of tones.

VHII - Not one I'd considered before at all but Tim says it works really well in PRS guitars and the clips I've listened to sound very impressive indeed. Superb tone. It sounds rather brighter to me than the Holydiver but not harsh and does seem to have a more PAF vibe to it with its more modest output. My two concerns with this one (probably due to me lack of experience with it) is that the Emerald neck sounds like it would be REALLY good for what I want but I don't think it would go well with a VHII in the bridge so if I used the VHII in the bridge I'd need another neck option. The other slight concern is that I read a few posts saying that the VHII kinda shows up mistakes. I'm not a bad player but I'm a hell of a long way from being really good.

Neck Options

Emerald - I hear incredible things about the Emerald neck, Tim rates it very highly for what I want and the description certainly seems to sound suitable. It should be articulate enough and the AIV magnet will give it some great PAF Blues tones so it sounds like it would be great for both Dave Murray and Santana.

VHII - Again, I know nothing about the VHII so I have no idea if it will do what I want but if I went with a VHII in the bridge, I'm not sure what else I could put with it.

Abraxas - I only mention this one because like the Emerald it's AIV so I assume it shares a number of very similar qualities and if the Emerald is good for the Dave Murray tone it seems reasonable to assume the Abraxas will and I think it would go with the VHII bridge better than the Emerald

So there it is; I'm really stuck. The Emerald sounds ideal for the neck and I'm pretty sure the Holydiver will perform well in the guitar and Tim agrees. However, Tim also thinks that VHII are great pickups for a PRS and I'd be a fool to if I didn't at least consider this suggestion and find out more, especially as the clips I've listened to sound so good.

Thanks  :D

[BigB]

Have you considered the Crawlers ? IIRC the PRS24 is a rather bright guitar so they should fit well within.

The other slight concern is that I read a few posts saying that the VHII kinda shows up mistakes.

More than other BKPs ???

[Slartibartfarst42]

The other slight concern is that I read a few posts saying that the VHII kinda shows up mistakes.

More than other BKPs ???

Yeah, I wasn't sure how to take that but a few posts I read said it. It's not a problem I've had with either the Miracle Man or Holydiver so perhaps it's not an issue.

You're right that for a mahogany guitar, the CU24 isn't all that dark at all. The word 'warm' might be a better description as I don't find it massively darker than my Jackson (a bit perhaps) but certainly warmer and I'd like to keep that. The Crawlers do sound good but I had assumed they would be better in a bolt-on Strat and possibly close enough to the Holydiver/Emerald combo that I might as well stick to that.

[Twinfan]

Holydivers aren't "crisp" to my ears, so I'm not sure it's what you want in the bridge?

Given that it's a Cu24, and you have the option to keep the split coils, I'd get a set of VHIIs.

[Philly Q]

I don't have a clear "picture" in my head of what distinguishes the VHII neck pickup from the other vintage to vintage hot models, but if I was ordering a set of humbuckers with the VHII in the bridge I would probably just go for a calibrated VHII set.

Failing that, the other "safe" option would be a Mule neck which is going to go with pretty much anything outside of the Contemporay range (and probably many within the Contemporary range too).

 

[Slartibartfarst42]

Holydivers aren't "crisp" to my ears, so I'm not it's what you want in the bridge?

Given that it's a Cu24, and you have the option to keep the split coils, I'd get a set of VHIIs.

It's only an SE Custom 24 so it's a straightforward 3-way toggle, though a push/pull is easily installed.

I think my real problem is that I'm torn two ways. I've had a Holydiver before in my Jackson and I really loved it because it was versatile, articulate and thick, with loads of great tone. Don't get me wrong, for what I use the Jackson for, the Miracle Man suits me better but I do miss the Holydiver. However, there's no getting away from the fact that the Holydiver, like my Miracle Man, is a modern pickup that is aimed more at Metal and I want to have a bigger spread of tones between my two guitars and that means I need something that is warm, organic, quite thick sounding, very articulate and with more of a vintage vibe so it's more Blues to very early 80's Metal. From what I can gather, that could well describe the VHII perfectly so it clearly makes sense. Is that an accurate description?

So far so good. The complication arises because with the neck pickup, I'm far more drawn towards the Emerald than the VHII. Listening to the clips, the Emerald is exactly what I want whereas the VHII is just kinda close. What I really need is a pickup for the bridge that is sort of like the VHII (assuming my description of it accurately reflects what it is like) but hot enough to go with an Emerald neck. I've trawled around the website and I can't find a likely candidate. In the contemporary section, the Rebel Yell and Cold Sweat seem too bright and the Crawler is maybe a bit too soft in the bass. In the Vintage Hot section, the Emerald bridge seems too bright as well, the Abraxas is also a bit soft in the bass and the Black Dog's description of 'aggressive' and 'throaty' puts me off, even assuming it was hot enough to live with the Emerald neck.

I'm stumped! MY options seem to be either getting a bridge pickup that suits what I'm after and compromising on the neck or getting the ideal neck pickup for what I want and trying a compromise with the bridge. It looks like I'll be left trying to find the option that is the least compromise but at this stage I just don't know.

[Twinfan]

You've just re-described the bridge tone you're looking for and have removed crisp?  :?

If that's the case, what about a set of Emeralds?

[Slartibartfarst42]

lol, sorry, it wasn't an intentional omission, I simply wrote down the words that came to mind at the time but to me, a pickup that is 'crisp' is not massively removed from one that is very articulate. Describing sound is VERY difficult  :)

The Emerald bridge did cross my mind but I'd dismissed it, partly because the EQ seemed a bit too bright to give it the big sound I like and partly because nobody had mentioned it previously so I assumed it clearly wasn't what I was after. Part of the reason I always liked the Holydiver and I also like the Miracle Man is because they sound big and thick with very articulate bottom ends. That's the characteristic that has always drawn me towards the tone of Gibsons with players like John Sykes, Slash and especially Gary Moore. The specific tones of the players change but they all seem to have a wonderfully rich, thick and very articulate sound to them. Unfortunately, although I love the sound of a Gibson, I really don't like playing them so I'm left trying to get as close as I can to it using the guitars I do like and in this case, that's a PRS.

That probably hasn't helped!  :shock:

EDIT: I just found a thread discussing a similar issue and the guy said he also liked a big sound so the description of VHII's as 'singlecoilish' put him off and I suppose it would me too, though it seems odd as I've equally read the VHII as having a 'big' sound. The alternatives put forward there were the Emerald and the Abraxas so perhaps the Emerald isn't as bright as I'd feared and perhaps the Abraxas has more articulation in the bass than I thought.

[darkbluemurder]

Have you tried the Holydiver bridge you had in the Jackson in the PRS? I would do that first before taking any further decisions.

Cheers Stephan

[Slartibartfarst42]

Sadly, no. I meant to but I knew I wanted a different finish for the PRS and the opportunity came up to sell it so I did that before I had a chance to try it in the PRS.

[darkbluemurder]

OK, I see. Well then, why not try a set of Emeralds. If the bridge is too bright you can still exchange it for a Holydiver.

Cheers Stephan

[TheyCallMeVolume]

I still think a VHII will fit you best. I'd be worried that the HD and the MM will cover too much of the same ground, and you'd be using one guitar too much over the other. With the VHII, obviously you could go heavy with it if you wanted, but I think you'd be more comfortable keeping it in the lower gain area of material, and higher gain for the MM.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I can't deny the logic of that. At the moment I seem to have a few options flying around in my head.

Holydiver/Emerald - Certainly good but as you say, perhaps too similar to the Miracle Man.

Emerald set - Perfect neck but is the bridge 'big' enough due to its bright nature? I know very little of the bridge version.

VHII set - Great tone but with the single coil comparisons, is that going to be too thin and I'm compromising the neck?

Abraxas/Emerald - Is the bridge too tame and soft?

Abraxas set - Sounds good but same issue as the previous option and I understand the neck is very different to the Emerald.

Crawler/Emerald - Great neck and a hot bridge. If the bridge is articulate enough (I really hate mush of any kind) it could work.

[WeAreNotGentlemen]

Emerald set - Perfect neck but is the bridge 'big' enough due to its bright nature? I know very little of the bridge version.

VHII set - Great tone but with the single coil comparisons, is that going to be too thin and I'm compromising the neck?

There are at least a couple overly heavy metal bands playing emerald bridges so I can only imagine it's thick. Plus, I've seen descriptions of it being big in the low end while staying bright on top.

Also the VHII is asymmetrically wound so even coil split people have said the neck is pretty big.

Why not VHII bridge and Emerald neck? It seems like what you want, and as long as you don't use the bridge for cleans there won't be too much of a volume difference. Just make the gain channel slightly louder. Or ask for just a slightly hotter VHII, you're a returning customer maybe such a small adjustment will be made haha. Not that I can speak for the team.

[Philly Q]

I just found a thread discussing a similar issue and the guy said he also liked a big sound so the description of VHII's as 'singlecoilish' put him off and I suppose it would me too, though it seems odd as I've equally read the VHII as having a 'big' sound.

The VHII sounds "big" in the sense that, because the two coils are wound very differently, they pick up different frequencies and the pickup as a whole covers a wider frequency range - a symmetrically-wound humbucker not only cancels hum but seems to cancel (or suppress?) certain frequencies to give that characteristically fat but "tight" humbucker sound.  Which I guess is what people mean when they say "compressed".

To put it another way, the VHII sounds "open" and that's the sense in which it's more like a single-coil.  "Single-coil-ish" may bring to mind a bright, low-output Fender pickup but in this context I'm thinking more of a P-90 - which certainly sounds both "big" and "open".

Everyone else may totally disagree with all that, but that's how I see it anyway.