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Author Topic: VHII and Mules considerations  (Read 10685 times)

ericsabbath

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VHII and Mules considerations
« on: September 28, 2012, 03:39:41 AM »
hey, guys
got a vhII covered set for the cheaps from a friend a couple weeks ago
installed them in my camo jap hurricane les paul copy

they sounded pretty much like the official clip (more than any other bkp I had)
bridge pickup is pretty focused, balanced and has a drier character than my custom riff raff and the black dog
kind of a Jon Schaffer dry and tight crunchy tone with my modded Marshall and my Zambelli Hyperdrive amp
neck pickup was good, but didn't impress me
didn't try it with the band, so I can't tell much more, but I really like what I heard

thing is: I have a mule set laying here, and I'm gonna try them in this same guitar for a true comparison (this hurricane used to be my main guitar before I bought my '73 custom, so I had over 18 pickups in this one)

the mules measured 8.68k (quite high), 7.3k
the vhII measured 9.04k, 8.17k
when I was trying to fit short legged mules in the rings, one spring just flew away  :lol:
then I had a brilliant insight!
the vhII neck has the exact same spec as the bridge version of the no longer made alnico 5 mule
I remember gwem and Feline had great impressions with the A5 mule, so I had to try the neck vhII in the bridge

it's too late, so I couldn't play loud more than a couple minutes, and only played at medium low volumes for a while, but I can already tell  this thing sounds amazing in the bridge!
a lot like my custom riff raff, but warmer and more balanced
I definitely like it better than the actual vhII bridge version, and better than in the neck spot
quite different from the neck cold sweat in the bridge, which is more upper mid heavy and a little more articulate
I love how it sounds really open, like the riff raff, but warm like the black dog

tomorrow I'm gonna try the regular A4 mules and see what changes  :D

by monday I might install a bridge warpig I have here
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 07:38:30 AM by Eric Hellstyle »
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

CanadianMetalhead

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 03:52:32 AM »
I'd LOVE to know the results of a comparison between the A4 mule and the neck VHii.

Was thinking of selling it and getting a new neck PU. Great tone warm tone but just not totally what i wanted in the Neck PU. I also have the VHII bridge and like it in my basswood guitar so ill be definetely trying this lol :)

Edit : sound clips would be even more awesome :P
PU's owned : AWPb, CWPb, MMb, CSb, HDb, HDn, Mule n, VHII b+n

darkbluemurder

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2012, 09:24:37 AM »
Eric,

That is very interesting. It seems that we are finding more and more neck pickups suited for the bridge position.

Cheers Stephan

Telerocker

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2012, 09:33:15 AM »
Great review and interesting. I have AIV Mules, why BKP doesn't make the AV-version (anymore)?
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

TheyCallMeVolume

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2012, 12:58:42 PM »
Very cool, good to know!

gwEm

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2012, 01:20:45 PM »
The VH2 works great in the bridge in a Fender-type guitar I think. I never tried one in an LP, but from the people who have, it seems more specialist in that situation.
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Philly Q

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2012, 02:37:57 PM »
Interesting thread.

This whole neck-pickup-in-bridge-position thing is very intriguing, but it gives so many extra possibilities it's starting to boggle my mind a little....
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

TheyCallMeVolume

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2012, 01:53:23 AM »
Don't you just hate boggled minds?

Philly Q

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2012, 09:08:03 AM »
Only when it's my own mind that's boggled.
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

_tom_

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2012, 10:31:38 AM »
I'd  be interested to hear the difference between a bridge AIV Mule and a neck VHII in the bridge.

ericsabbath

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2012, 08:14:20 PM »
hey, guys
didn't have time to install the mules yet (and still gotta find the flying spring  :lol:)
going out to buy some dog food, and might install them later today


still impressed with how much more balanced the neck VHII sounds in the bridge than in the neck spot
definitely sounds like a bridge pickup
the bridge version was more nailbombish (strong lows, edgy top, faster picking response), which is kinda expected, as the bobbins should get more asymmetrical with the higher DC (just like the nailbomb)
the neck version sounds much more organic, a lot like the riff raff, maybe a little less bright than both RR and bridge VHII
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

itamar101

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2012, 08:17:12 PM »
hey, guys
didn't have time to install the mules yet (and still gotta find the flying spring  :lol:)
going out to buy some dog food, and might install them later today


still impressed with how much more balanced the neck VHII sounds in the bridge than in the neck spot
definitely sounds like a bridge pickup
the bridge version was more nailbombish (strong lows, edgy top, faster picking response), which is kinda expected, as the bobbins should get more asymmetrical with the higher DC (just like the nailbomb)
the neck version sounds much more organic, a lot like the riff raff, maybe a little less bright than both RR and bridge VHII

From this description it sort of sounds like an underwound Holy Diver... Is that something that you'd agree with or am I imagining it all wrong?

ericsabbath

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2012, 11:49:24 PM »
hey, guys
didn't have time to install the mules yet (and still gotta find the flying spring  :lol:)
going out to buy some dog food, and might install them later today


still impressed with how much more balanced the neck VHII sounds in the bridge than in the neck spot
definitely sounds like a bridge pickup
the bridge version was more nailbombish (strong lows, edgy top, faster picking response), which is kinda expected, as the bobbins should get more asymmetrical with the higher DC (just like the nailbomb)
the neck version sounds much more organic, a lot like the riff raff, maybe a little less bright than both RR and bridge VHII

From this description it sort of sounds like an underwound Holy Diver... Is that something that you'd agree with or am I imagining it all wrong?

nah, nothing like the holy diver
completely different specs and voicing

technically, as far as I understand:
bridge vhii = nailbomb with thicker wire (not underwound)
black dog = holy diver with thicker wire (also not underwound)

of course, by "equal", I mean in specs
not sure if Tim uses some sort of voicing adjustment in the wiring process
and lower dc doesn't mean underwinding
both vhii and nailbomb are heavily overwound pickups, and Tim manages to retain the high end by offsetting the coils, and that's supposedly what gives them the more articulate top and punchier low end , instead of getting middy and bloated
they have the same long alnico 5  magnet, enamel wire, different gauges (42 awg for the vhii, 43 awg for the nailbomb)
the others have short alnico 5 magnets, polysol wire, also different gauges (42.5 awg for the black dog, 44 awg for the holy diver), so they aren't much overwound, although they have close dc readings to the vhii and holy diver, respectively

the neck vhii has a little more vintage correct spec, and is more paf sounding, as it's not heavily overwound
I'll guess it's not as asymetrical as the bridge model, cause it sounds more balanced in the mids instead of being bass/treble focused
quite warm response compared to the bridge pickup
I'll try to get a reading from each bobbin
can't make a precise comparison with the riff raff cause my RR has a custom 4 mm thick magnet and it's also in a different sounding les paul
the difference between a stock riff raff and a neck vhii would be the magnet length and maybe the level of asymmetry
an alnico 5 mule should be pretty much like this
again, absolutely nothing lile the holy diver

edit:
playing it louder today, I can definitely relate it with the riff raff
this guitar sounds warmer than my les paul custom, so maybe that's why it sounds a little less spanky than the riff raff
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 01:01:18 AM by Eric Hellstyle »
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

darrenw5094

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2012, 02:55:43 AM »
What other BKP is the neck VHII in bridge position is closest to it?

Or what 2 BKP does it sit in between?
BKP: Abraxas - Les Paul
Holy Diver - Charvel
Mule - Les Paul
Rebel Yell - Les Paul
VHII - PRS CU22
Emerald - Les Paul
Warpig - Caparison Horus

ericsabbath

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Re: VHII and Mules considerations
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2012, 05:44:29 AM »
between the riff raff and the mule, definitely, leaning towards the riff raff side
I assumed it's equivalent to an alnico 5 mule, but only Tim can confirm that

installed the mules, but it was midnight, so I couldn't play loud
damn... why didn't I try it before?
I thought it was lower output, but it has just the right amount of juice
warmer, softer and a bit middier than the neck vhii, but just as hot
gonna try it with the band later today!

I think I can get why Tim doesn't want alnico 5 mules
maybe it isn't different enough from the riff raff to have another model confusing customers heads
it definitely has a different feel from the A4 mule, which is definitely more "1959" sounding (compared to the neck vhii)

dammit
now I'm wondering how a nailbomb would sound with alnico 4  :lol:
(overwound abraxas?)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 07:40:11 AM by Eric Hellstyle »
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat