Tramp the dirt down

[clyde billt]

 :D
Good riddance to the evil witch.

I'm having a drink tonight to celebrate

[Jamie]

Harsh.

[Ian Price]

I'm assuming you knew her personally then?

[Dmoney]

What is harsh is the Orwellian rewriting of history pouring out in the form of nonsensical tear jerking rhetoric from the mainstream media. I've had to deal with it all day in work and it's making me sick.

[Twinfan]

I'm sick of hearing from the haters, they're on every forum and all over Facebook.  She was voted into power by the public, and turned around a country that was at rock bottom.  I see huge similarities in what she did and what the coalition is doing now - doing the right thing for the country is going to cause some pain, but overall it's the right thing to do.

Celebrating the death of someone is a very strange attitude to take, and I just don't understand it.

[Dmoney]

My issue is that all I've heard on the radio or TV thus far is various MP's talking about how she was such a good leader.

She got elected by playing the race/immigration card at a time when emigration figures where higher. She wiped out a huge chunk of the countries industrial base which devastated families and vast areas of Britain and continues to do so today. She performed quite a few U-turns and isn't the mythological strong leader people think she was. The Falklands could potentially have been avoided was it not for intelligence concerning Argentinian preparations being ignored. Similar intelligence was gathered by the labour government in 1978 and used to avert war via diplomatic means. It's suggested the intelligence was ignored for political gain. She invented QUANGO's. Introduced heavy taxation and opened up a greater section of the population to heavier taxation while giving tax breaks to the richest, increasing the wealth gap (sound familiar). She introduced the 'Section 28' legislation in 1988 which (now repealed) was incredibly homophobic and led to increased gay rights activism. That was repealed in 2003 with only Kent County Council continuing to support the theme of the text. Massive youth unemployment led to huge increases in crime... but this and the minors strikes were dealt with by increasing police salaries to keep them on side. In addition to that you have the usual Poll Tax arguments, Social Workers professions, teachers counting for nothing, increasing spending on the military rather than the NHS etc... and condemning Nelson Mandela as a terrorist, while befriending some of the worlds most brutal dictators. Her son also sold a bunch of guns to countries like er... Iraq. And finally, let us not forget Hillsborough, the 96 dead and the cover up that ensued.

Hard to see why anyone would speak ill of her.

And before anyone says what I just did was an abhorrent rejoicing at someones death, it wasn't. It was pointing out arguments against the rhetoric appearing elsewhere that paints this picture of a glorious woman. She doesn't need to be remembered as a role model based on the dialog broadcast by whatever means at the time of her death. Her actions should at least be debated, because they require it...

[King Zog of Albania]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWjm6XdtEb0

[Ian Price]

Celebrating the death of someone is a very strange attitude to take, and I just don't understand it.

+1

I'm not into politics at all (mainly because I either don't understand it or just can't be bothered with it). It is the celebration of death that I really don't like and don't understand at all.

[Twinfan]

Dmoney - I'm not sure every single thing on your list can be solely attributed to her.  Plus hindsight is always 20:20.

Bottom line, she led the fixing of a broken country.  Times change, industries change and communities change.  It's time to look forwards and not backwards.

[Dmoney]

I disagree.
I also think that saying "Times change, industries change and communities change..." is a gross oversimplification of what took place and what happened between then and now and what continues to happen, especially in the North of England, Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland. If people don't understand or have no interest in understanding those factors, then they can't hope to ever understand why someone my say "good riddance". I wouldn't be as quick to edge back in that direction in the name of austerity, in the manner of that time... but each to their own.

[Philly Q]

I wondered if they're be a thread about this.

Personally, I find myself feeling totally indifferent to the news.  It seems like I heard so much pro- and anti-Thatcher debate between 1979 and 1990 that, even though it was so long ago, I really don't want to hear it all again now.  Quite glad to be in work today so I haven't had to hear/see the story completely taking over the web, TV and radio.

I might just bury my head under a pillow for the next 24 hours.  Somebody shout when we're back to normal.

[Dmoney]

I might just bury my head under a pillow for the next 24 hours.  Somebody shout when we're back to normal.

this is my plan. although since I work at a broadcaster making sure their stuff gets broadcast, it might be hard. hahah! might try just sitting listening to my ipod. if your TV goes black, it wasn't me!

[38thBeatle]

I am disappointed to see this thread on the forum.

[MrBump]

Dmoney - I'm not sure every single thing on your list can be solely attributed to her.  Plus hindsight is always 20:20.

Bottom line, she led the fixing of a broken country.  Times change, industries change and communities change.  It's time to look forwards and not backwards.

Dave - Countries don't break.

That's a tabloid notion that doesn't ever belong in any rational argument.

I was a passionate hater of Thatcher in the 80's - my politics were very left back then.  I'm old enough now to realise that there aren't any absolute rights or wrongs, just like there's no absolute left or right.  But the stuff that meant something to me back then - the miners, Greenham Common, mass privatisation of national assets to line the pockets of Tory donors - Thatcher (rightly or wrongly) became the poster girl for all that hate.  And it's hard for me to let that go, although it gets easier over time!

 :D

I'm less left now - that concept is dead and buried, I think. 

There have been some interesting articles in the press today - not just the rubbish ones, Dmoney, but some interesting, dispassionate and fairly accurate ones too. 

[clyde billt]

I'm assuming you knew her personally then?

No I didn't, but I was very well acquainted with her policies and the misery it caused my family and countless of my friends families.
And it was at a very personal level.
Jobs taken, industries shut down, families ripped apart. All planned and managed at a very early stage
Even before the heart of racist England voted her into the top job

This isn't rhetoric or internet babble.
This is my personal memory, my experience.
I've waited ages for that bitch to die and I'm over the $%&#ing moon about it. It saddens me that she can't hear the vitriol thrown her way and the outpouring of hatred that her death has thrown up.
I only hope that her evil spawn hear it. Not that they'll be giving a $%&#.

Harsh?
I can understand how it would come across as that, but I make no apologies for it.
I was a working man in Thatchers Britain and a working class man in the north of the UK in the 80's was not a pleasant situation to be in
UB40 wasn't just the name of a pop band. They called themselves that for a reason.
The Beat had Stand Down Margaret in the charts only because Whine and Grine was a great dance tune (awesome dub B side if you get the chance to listen to it).
The establishment darling that Mr Costello is really meant the words to Tramp the Dirt Down.
All for a reason
The riots in Brixton Toxteth St Pauls and all the rest were real and came from anger and frustration at a system that was fully against them
If you didn't experience it then you cannot understand on how my opinion was formed.
And the opinion of countless miners, shipyard workers, dockers, steel workers........

If it seems harsh to you then that is good. That means you haven't experienced the hardship of a corrupt government.
That is what the Thatcher government was. It bears no relationship to any that came after, although Tony would loved to have gotten away with it

I started this on the off topic off topic forum, feel free not to participate

Anyway,
I'm having a drink to celebrate.

Have a dance with me
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K6YWX4OL0o