Micro Terror vs 44 Mag. Also- wah stuff.

[Crunch]

In a debate between the Orange Micro Terror and the Electro-Harmonix .44 Magnum.
Micro Terror seems the obvious choice with the Terror series tube preamp. However, I was hoping to obtain a bass, soon, and don't know how well the Micro would appreciate running down-tuned bass riffs through it.
They're both roughly the same, power wise. Does anyone have opinions on the headroom of either? I run a Sovtek Muff almost constantly.

I'm also in the market for a new wah (as my Cry Baby broke). I'd really like a Real McCoy Wizard, but they're mad expensive.
Not looking for another Cry Baby as I've become bored with them and they don't interact well with fuzz. BBE makes an intriguing model, but I haven't been able to find many opinions on them as they're under the radar. I like the Vox wah sound, too, but just don't have enough experience with them to know how they perform under high gain.
Are there any wahs worth mentioning that I might not know about? Ones that might work particularly well with lower octaves and fuzz? Maybe even a bass if the mood strikes me? It probably won't, but I'm not a fortune teller.
Or should I just be patient for once and save up for the Wizard? I'm not a patient man, so I'll probably argue about that suggestion.

[Kiichi]

I doubt the Micro terror will handle a bass well. I have no hands on experience with it, but when I saw Beardfish trying it out live with a 4x12" marshall cab and talked with the guitar player afterwards we both agreed that it was absolutly impressive for what it was and was suitable as a backup amp for them (normally he uses a 120W marshall I believe). We also noticed that when going drop D one could started to feel that it was a 20W SS powerstage. Might have been in part that it had to power a 4x12" and it still was very usable, but there was a somewhat noticable loss compared to e standart. I do however believe that I would not have noticed it if I did not have the direct comparison.

So I very much doubt that it would handle a bass very well, not to mention a down tuned one. I would thing the 44 mag would be the same issue.

[tekbow]

hmm wahs.. now.. you know that all the wahs you mentioned and the other common ones on the market are basically all the same thing? including the vox, because vox and crybabies are one and the same. There's all different levels of premium or standard components used of course, which do make for differences, but would you not consider something with a different character all together?

I could go on about vintage wah brands as i have done in the past (and i love mine) and their modern reissues.. however, it can get pricey and you have to know what you're looking for.

Can i suggest looking at Wilson effects wahs? he does clones of most of the famous no longer made vintage wahs. His colorsound wah is particularly good.

Of course colorsounds currrent vintage RI's are the real deal, but more expensive than any of Teese's wahs.

Wilson does a side by side comparison with his colorsound clone and his original colorsound. I think it's sounds pretty dead on.

BTW, colorsounds react very well with high gain, develop a great midrange snarl. he also does a Parapedal wah clone, which is what Iommi used.

[Dmoney]

If you have a broken crybaby you can get the parapedal PCB from chicago Iron to retro fit your old crybaby housing. I have that. I like it a lot, but its a very intense wah.

[tekbow]

didn't know they were doing separate boards? is it a board or a harness? is there a pot included too? i thought they needed a dual gang pot. Thats cool they do a board though, because the chicago iron reissues are very pricey.

[Kiichi]

hmm wahs.. now.. you know that all the wahs you mentioned and the other common ones on the market are basically all the same thing? including the vox, because vox and crybabies are one and the same. There's all different levels of premium or standard components used of course, which do make for differences, but would you not consider something with a different character all together?

I could go on about vintage wah brands as i have done in the past (and i love mine) and their modern reissues.. however, it can get pricey and you have to know what you're looking for.

Can i suggest looking at Wilson effects wahs? he does clones of most of the famous no longer made vintage wahs. His colorsound wah is particularly good.

Of course colorsounds currrent vintage RI's are the real deal, but more expensive than any of Teese's wahs.

Wilson does a side by side comparison with his colorsound clone and his original colorsound. I think it's sounds pretty dead on.

BTW, colorsounds react very well with high gain, develop a great midrange snarl. he also does a Parapedal wah clone, which is what Iommi used.

Great, now I want that tunable colorful clone. Been thinking about getting a Wah for a long time as I love what Roine Stolt does with it (mostly with Transatlantic) and this looks nice (I just love things with a lot of knobs and options). Really gotta look into getting something. But 230 Bucks plus shipping from the US and taxes makes it kinda expensive.
And then there is the need for a volume pedal...

[Crunch]

I doubt the Micro terror will handle a bass well ... We also noticed that when going drop D one could started to feel that it was a 20W SS powerstage ... there was a somewhat noticable loss compared to e standart. I do however believe that I would not have noticed it if I did not have the direct comparison.

So I very much doubt that it would handle a bass very well, not to mention a down tuned one. I would thing the 44 mag would be the same issue.

I tend to go considerably lower than D, so that's good info. Being that the housing for the .44 Mag is so small, I doubt its abilities to push lows, but it /is/ still designed for bass, so I'll try to see if I can find a store willing to let me plug a 5-string into it. I tried to get the local shop to let me, but the kid insisted I would blow it up.

you know that all the wahs you mentioned and the other common ones on the market are basically all the same thing? including the vox, because vox and crybabies are one and the same. There's all different levels of premium or standard components used of course, which do make for differences, but would you not consider something with a different character all together?

I could go on about vintage wah brands as i have done in the past (and i love mine) and their modern reissues.. however, it can get pricey and you have to know what you're looking for.

I'm mostly referring to the modern Cry Babies. I still prefer the mids on the Vox model over the OG Cry Baby, though. I'll look into the brands you mentioned, as I am still trying to get away from the more average tones.

If you have a broken crybaby you can get the parapedal PCB from chicago Iron to retro fit your old crybaby housing. I have that. I like it a lot, but its a very intense wah.

I actually had plans to gut it and try my hand at building my own. If I get fed up, I might just do that. Thanks for the heads up.

[Kiichi]

Just had a look at the 44 mag and to my suprise somewhat it actually has 44W power. That being more than twice the watts of the MT (20W) it should handle low tunings quite a bit better (and has more headroom) then the MT I think.
Still I would be cautius in regards to downtuned bass and try that out first (if possible), but depending on the caps and such inside this might work. I can definetly picture it working ok for regular bass, though you will ofc never get near the headroom of a proper bass head. Depending on the volume you need and if you like distortion on your bass tone this might just work out.

[JJretroTONEGOD]

I'd get the RMC wha over everything, yes they are expensive but they are hand wired to very very high standards and mine has never failed me once.

[Crunch]

Just had a look at the 44 mag and to my suprise somewhat it actually has 44W power. That being more than twice the watts of the MT (20W) it should handle low tunings quite a bit better (and has more headroom) then the MT I think.
Still I would be cautius in regards to downtuned bass and try that out first (if possible), but depending on the caps and such inside this might work. I can definetly picture it working ok for regular bass, though you will ofc never get near the headroom of a proper bass head. Depending on the volume you need and if you like distortion on your bass tone this might just work out.

It's apparently 80W, total (so said Mike Matthews in a demo about it). It's marketed as 44W because it's measured clean to that point.
I didn't consider wattage to be too much of a concern being that the Orange is supposedly more efficient than other SS amps and I'm not getting either of these to gig with or do anything but practice by myself. Thanks for the opinions, all. That sells it.

I'd get the RMC wha over everything, yes they are expensive but they are hand wired to very very high standards and mine has never failed me once.

But I'm so impatient....

[tekbow]

Actually, thinking about it, i'd be +1ing sticking a wiring harness in there, cheaper, lots of options that IMO would equal teese. Lots of dudes making high quality handwired harnesses. building you're own is even better!

Just do yourself a favour and get a good repro ICAR pot, they're more important than people think, the sound isn't just all in the inductor

Can i ask? what is wrong with your current wah? in what way is it broken?

By the way, just so you know, no crybaby/vox style wah interacts well with traditional style Ge fuzzes, especially after the wah. it's to do with impedence mismatching when the effect is on, you just have to run em before and be more subtle with your foot. Only way to counteract this is to install an output buffer in the wah, or perhaps run an external buffer after the wah

[Kiichi]

It's apparently 80W, total (so said Mike Matthews in a demo about it). It's marketed as 44W because it's measured clean to that point.
I didn't consider wattage to be too much of a concern being that the Orange is supposedly more efficient than other SS amps and I'm not getting either of these to gig with or do anything but practice by myself. Thanks for the opinions, all. That sells it.

Well it is about 88w maximum power yes, but also the orange is about 40W max power. When you read a wattage number on an amp it is always the clean power, so before the power stage starts distorting (with tube amps this is where the fun starts and why people like low wattage heads). So a 120w head delivers every so slightly more when fully cranked. The rule of thumb is that a fully cranked amp can deliver up to twice its rated power.
This is very important to know when you match a head and cab. If you are one to really crank your amps and put a 30W head on a 30W rated cab...might not be so good in the long run.

And the wattage thing is not so much about the volume as it is about being able to handle bass frequencies. The volume difference between 20w and 40w is probably a lot less than you think. Noticable, but not near double as loud as one might think.
But the more watts you have the better the amp handles bass frequencies without getting undefined, muddy or distorted.
That is what you see bass heads with 500 or a 1000w. Thats not that much for volume.

[BigB]

BBE makes an intriguing model, but I haven't been able to find many opinions on them as they're under the radar. I like the Vox wah sound, too, but just don't have enough experience with them to know how they perform under high gain.

The BBE is a vintage voiced wah, similar to a Vox for the overall feel (short course etc) but better sounding,  very vocal and expressive. It's really great for that late 60s / early 70s vibe, but possibly not the best choice for modern / hi-gain stuff (IMHO at least - I prefer a more modern / flatter & longer course wah for hi-gain but YMMV).

[tekbow]

BBE makes an intriguing model, but I haven't been able to find many opinions on them as they're under the radar. I like the Vox wah sound, too, but just don't have enough experience with them to know how they perform under high gain.

The BBE is a vintage voiced wah, similar to a Vox for the overall feel (short course etc) but better sounding,  very vocal and expressive. It's really great for that late 60s / early 70s vibe, but possibly not the best choice for modern / hi-gain stuff (IMHO at least - I prefer a more modern / flatter & longer course wah for hi-gain but YMMV).

thats the thing though, most of the modern wahs out there (and i'm talking pot/inductor based) are basically crybaby/vox wahs with component changes (which don't cost much) and flash enclosures (that do), and i just think they end up being overpriced, especially when (looking at dunlop, who also produce the vox wahs i believe) you open them up and the majority of them have a GCB95 crybaby PCB in them. Even the Budda wahs were made by dunlop and had the GCB board in them. If he's handy with a soldering iron, most of the schems for these wahs have been traced, he could concievably mod a regular crybaby into a kirk hammet signature spec, or jerry cantrell sig spec (albeit fixed without the adjustment pots) for a fraction of the cost of buying them.

I myself have never had a problem doing high gain stuff with vintage/vintage styled wahs, however what you're saying holds weight because a lot of modern metal guys do prefer what you're describing. In that case i'd go with a Morley or other optical wah which aren't my cup of tea exactly because of the flatter taper, but may suit the OP down to the ground.

what you're getting with the boutique wahs like teese is the durability of proper handmade manufacturing, and bespoke high tolerence spec components, like the inductor and pot (fulltones are especially good) and attention to voicing.but law of diminishing returns apply here. Is my fulltone clyde standard £120 better sounding than a vox or crybaby. probably not, but it will last a considerably longer time, and when some part does give up the ghost (9 times out of ten, the pot) fulltone will replace it for me, or i can buy one of the many good quality ICAR pots that are becoming more prevalent these days and do it myself. I've had my clyde for 4 years now, with a lot of use, and it hasn't become scratchy yet.

i posted this a while back, just my thoughts on wahs today, and plenty of vids of the alternative options out there

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28027.msg366591#msg366591

[BigB]

thats the thing though, most of the modern wahs out there (and i'm talking pot/inductor based) are basically crybaby/vox wahs with component changes
(...)
I myself have never had a problem doing high gain stuff with vintage/vintage styled wahs, however what you're saying holds weight because a lot of modern metal guys do prefer what you're describing. In that case i'd go with a Morley or other optical wah which aren't my cup of tea exactly because of the flatter taper

Yeps I was mostly thinking of the more modern (usually optical) wahs like morleys, ibanez WD or even the cheapo artec APW7 (well, not exactly optical for this last one but yet pot-free), that have (or can bet setup to have) a flatter taper, longer course and usually a less pronounced resonance peak, which I find to work better for hi-gain material. Now this is very obviously a "what works for me"  statement, and I have to add that the BBE just smokes the basic current production Vox and Cry Baby models (or just any current "signature" Cry Baby as far as I'm concerned <g>) whatever the gain level.

@tekbow : the only fuzz I tried the BBE with is an homemade germanim / silicon hybrid based on the BigMuff, worked ok as far as I'm concerned but that's definitly not my territory so don't count this as an educated opinion.

Just my 2 cents...