Strat conversion to HH

[Sothoth]

Been playing for 20+ years, but pretty new to searching for pickups to match a specific sound I'm after.  I'm hoping for some recommendations.

I'd like to get a pickup set for my SSS strat but prefer a fatter sound than the SSS set that came with it.  It has what Fender calls "vintage noiseless" pickups.  I am not married to keeping it an SSS, in fact I'm kind of leaning towards changing it to an HH config and leaving my homemade telecaster with singles for the lighter and twangier music. 

I'd like the strat to cover blues rock (Black Keys, Soledad Brothers), classic rock (Stones, Zeppelin, CCR), hard rock (AC/DC, Sabbath), and some metal (Metallica).  I've been listening to sound samples for ages.  Love the Abraxis, War Pig, Holy Diver, and Black Dog, to name just a few.   While the Warpig sounds phenomenal for Metallica and death metal, I can't find samples to know how they'd do playing blues or Zeppelin... but my guess is they'd miss the mark by a lot.

Suggestions?  I apologize I can't give a more specific description of "the sound" I'm after... I never fully understood the terminology y'all use.  That said I hope it's enough to describe the need for a versatile pickup set capable of a nice fat bucker sound, which can handle some Metallica-esque riffs, but primarily be in the AC/DC, Sabbath, CCR zone, and have enough clarity to handle some lighter tunes like Over the Hills... by LZ.

Please help me, I need it. :)

[Kiichi]

Hi and welcome!

You are going for quite a range of tones there, so that will not be too easy. However in the vintage / vintage hot range there are very, very versatile PUs, so it should work out.

My hunch for the bridge would be the Abraxas. It is, so simplify it, a hotter, fatter version of the Mule bridge, which is just about the most versatile bridge out there imho. Since the Mule can go from clean, to blues, to rock and into terretory like Ozzy rather easy and sometimes even higher (there is a ViK guitars video floating around blowing my mind) so a slightly hotter and fatter version of that should be just what you need.

For the neck I am not as sure, but the Mule is always a great option, canīt go wrong with that puppy. Balanced, woody, warm, and just a classic textbook PAF all around. Just plain beautiful. Riff Raff if you want it brighter in the neck.
Sides that, coming from SCs you could always go p90 for the neck if you got a  taste for them.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I have two options for you to consider, either of which should work well.

Option 1 would be to largely follow Kiichi's advice with the Abraxas. You'll find plenty clips on here and You Tube where HTH Amps plays loads of different styles with them. Personally, I'd go with a calibrated set rather than using a Mule in the neck but both are good shouts.

Option 2 would be for a slightly hotter route. For that, I'd go with a Holydiver in the bridge as it works supremely well in a Strat offering warm, thick and fluid tones with enough tightness for some great Metal tones. It works a treat with an overdrive pedal too. I'm always amazed at how versatile the Holydiver is and it remains my favourite BKP. For the neck, I'd be inclined to try a Crawler. It's hot enough to live with the Holydiver and will give you plenty of very warm, fat and PAF tones.

[Telerocker]

Crawler calibrated set, or Holy Diver/VHII-neck or Crawler-neck. Just depends what is more important for you: the Diver sounds more modern than the Crawler and is the better option for metal/hardrock, however I can get excellent hardrocktones with the Crawler in my swampashstrat. Crawler turns your strat into a beefy powermachine, big fat tones (also above the 12th fret), growls like a bear when pushed. Still sounding like a hot PAF. Low end is softer though then the Diver.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Exactly why I mentioned the Holydiver/Crawler combo as it would give him acces to the tightness and aggression he'd need for heavier stuff as well as the beefy PAF tones. I can't say I've ever heard of anyone using a Holydiver/Crawler combo but the more i think about it, the more it sounds like a really good way of getting a very versatile and beefy Strat.

[Sothoth]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.  The Abraxis seems really cool and its hard to imagine going wrong with that. 

About a Holydiver/Crawler combo, what's the logic with the bridge/neck position that's been recommended?  I realize I'm showing my ignorance but presumably you're suggesting one is better for rhythm/riffs in bridge and the other for lead (just putting it simply)?

I'll listen to the sound clips for them all more... nice that there are so many on here!

[Telerocker]

What I read the HD-neck is not a fat/dark as the Crawler-neck. About the Crawler-bridge just one more thing: although this one has huge mids, there's is enough topend for sure and the low strings keep tight enough for hardrock when pushed. What strikes me is the enormous clarity, even with highgain, but that's a BKP-trademark.

[Slartibartfarst42]

As Telerocker has already alluded to, I suggested the mixed set because I felt that a calibrated set of either would not suit your needs. To me, the Holydiver bridge is ideal because it gives you a thick, warm and fluid tone while retaining the tightness and articulation of a pickup that will suit Metal as well. The alnico V magnet helps to give it a rich tone and leads are especially sweet. The Crawler is similar in that respect, probably being even fatter and warmer but it's also a little softer in the bass so I felt that, on balance, the Holydiver would make a better bridge option given that you were looking at going as far as Metallica. I can take my Holydiver into Metallica territory and it's fine but I think you're starting to get out of the Crawlers comfort zone at that level as it's more a Blues Rock pickup even though it still has great BKP articulation. Both would be excellent but I felt that in this case the Holydiver was the better option. However, the neck Holydiver isn't as thick or dark so in this case, I didn't think it would ideally suit your needs. Conversely, the Crawler neck is still fat and warm with a distinctly PAF flavour to it so it seemed to suit both your guitar and tastes very well. Mixing and matching pickups is quite common to get the sounds you want, in fact the only calibrated BKP set I've ever owned was a Cold Sweat set.

[Sothoth]

Would a warpig-bridge and crawler-neck be too much contrast?

[JimmyMoorby]

The alnico nailbomb bridge does heavy fast thrash well and i'm not really a blues player but it does Kirk Hammett style 'Metal Blues' a la The Black Album extremely well to my ears.  I do some early Rainbow, Van Halen and Sabbath covers too and it sounds good to my ears I think it could be ideal.

As for neck the cold sweat if oten paired with it and I love it.

[darkbluemurder]

I'd like the strat to cover blues rock (Black Keys, Soledad Brothers), classic rock (Stones, Zeppelin, CCR), hard rock (AC/DC, Sabbath), and some metal (Metallica).  I've been listening to sound samples for ages.  Love the Abraxis, War Pig, Holy Diver, and Black Dog, to name just a few.   While the Warpig sounds phenomenal for Metallica and death metal, I can't find samples to know how they'd do playing blues or Zeppelin... but my guess is they'd miss the mark by a lot.

... a versatile pickup set capable of a nice fat bucker sound, which can handle some Metallica-esque riffs, but primarily be in the AC/DC, Sabbath, CCR zone, and have enough clarity to handle some lighter tunes like Over the Hills... by LZ.

Given these requirements I would recommend the Abraxas set.

Cheers Stephan

[Gary_Goo]

I'm not sure I agree with a lot of the suggestions here. In my opinion the Crawler and Holy Diver are overkill for what you play. I think throwing Metallica into the mix has made people overlook the stuff you play most and just try and get you into metal territory. For the record the Crawler is probably the only BKP I dislike. I found the bridge way too mid focused and compressed sounding for my liking and the neck was too full sounding.
I get the impression that the pickups in your guitar are thin sounding and you want something fatter. Any humbucker in the BKP range will sound fatter than typical strat single coils just cos that's a general feature of humbuckers vs single coils. Some of the suggestions given will make your guitar substantially fatter and higher output and you might not want to go that far.
You never mention the construction of your strat and so much depends on the body, neck and fingerboard woods and how your strat sounds unplugged. I wouldn't really make a solid recommendation without knowing this anyway. An ash body, maple neck and fingerboard strat is going to sound different to an alder body with a rosewood fingerboard and a pickup that sounds amazing in one will sound like dull cr@p in another.
If I had to take a stab at it I have to say I somewhat agree with Kiichi, but would that probably a full Mule set would be good enough for what you need and maybe go the Abraxas bridge route if you fancied a hotter smoother bridge or Black Dog bridge for a chunkier PAF sound. I've heard people say they get a decent early Metallica tone with Mules and Black Dogs on more than a few occasions and either of those will feel hotter to you going from strat singles.
Another option that nobody has mentioned could be to go HSS. Theres a Black Dog/Slow Hand set that could be a good option for you as you still get to keep some more traditional (albeit a little hotter and fatter) strat tones too. This option means less work to do to your guitar too.
Sorry if I've added extra confusion to things, but I think I can see what you're trying to achieve and in my opinion some of the options you've been given are a probably step too far for what you need. I see you as more as someone at classic end of the spectrum, but who wants to dabble in the metal end of things and I think any of the options I've mentioned above would be more than fat enough sounding for you, have enough output to get you heading into metal territory and yet still give you that classic/vintage edge you need.

[Sothoth]

Ahhh... there is so much to discuss :)

Gary you are mostly correct that Metallica is about the heaviest I want to get and thus is the heaviest end of my spectrum.  As a percentage of my playing its maybe 10%.  Yes, the SSS sounds way too thin to me.  Body is Ash (but pretty heavy so I would not call it swamp ash).  Neck is maple with rosewood fretboard.  It does not sound as lively as I think it should, at least in part due to the heavy body, probably also the SSS pickups.

The Abraxis was the first BKP that made me think "wow" about their products.  Since then lots have sounded really amazing in the clips I've listened to.  I would say I'm hoping to avoid anything too mid-centered (metal "scoop" or "chunk" isn't my primary thing although I do like to toy with that just a tad), will primarily be playing classic rock and AC/DC-ish music, but can hang with Metallica without epically failing like the current SSS config. :) I don't need to replicate Metallicas sound although if there is something that can do so without being inappropriate for Hendrix or Led Zep I'm down with that, too.

I'll also consider the Duncan SHR-1 (Hot Rails for Strat) which would not require a retrofit, but I worry don't have quite the fat humbucker sound I am after.

 

[Slartibartfarst42]

The Hotrails were absolutely woeful in my Jackson, though they did sound better when I put them into a Yamaha Pacifica. Either way, they were never remotely as good as any Bare Knuckle I've ever tried. The JB that came with the Jackson was better and quite impressive in the Pacifica but overall, that set made me sure I'd never buy Seymour Duncan again. BKP cost more but are well worth the extra.

As for your question, I stand by my earlier suggestions. Which way you go depends on just how far towards 'Metal' you want to go. If that's your thing then go with the Holydiver bridge and either a Crawler or Abraxas neck. If you'd like things a touch more vintage and softer in the bridge, go with the Abraxas set. Either way you'll have awesome tone.

[BigB]

I'd like the strat to cover blues rock (Black Keys, Soledad Brothers), classic rock (Stones, Zeppelin, CCR), hard rock (AC/DC, Sabbath), and some metal (Metallica).  I've been listening to sound samples for ages. Love the Abraxis, War Pig, Holy Diver, and Black Dog, to name just a few. 

You understand that most of these samples were made on guitars that are a far cry from a strat and that good pups like BKPs are very faithfull - hence sensitive - to the guitar they're in ?

While the Warpig sounds phenomenal for Metallica and death metal, I can't find samples to know how they'd do playing blues or Zeppelin... but my guess is they'd miss the mark by a lot.

Well... A couple weeks ago I found myself jamming with a blues / blues-rock band (hottest stuff being early ZZ Top tunes) with my ABomb loaded SG and while the ABomb is definitly not the best choice for bluesy tones I still got compliments on my tone (obviously not on my playing but that's another story - 'nuff said :mrgreen:). But anyway - as versatile as most of BKPs can be, Warpigs are possibly not the best choice for most of the bands you named.

Suggestions?  I apologize I can't give a more specific description of "the sound" I'm after... I never fully understood the terminology y'all use.  That said I hope it's enough to describe the need for a versatile pickup set capable of a nice fat bucker sound, which can handle some Metallica-esque riffs, but primarily be in the AC/DC, Sabbath, CCR zone, and have enough clarity to handle some lighter tunes like Over the Hills... by LZ.

Please help me, I need it. :)

In a SG I would have said RR or RR / Mule. In a heavy ash / rosewood strat ? Well, I have no direct experience with the Abraxas but from what I know of this set it might just be the ticket. Crawlers can do a lot and are known to work well in strats but they might be a touch too hot / fat / warm / compressed for you, and Abraxas are supposed to sit somewhere between the Mules and the Crawlers.  Just keep in mind that a HH strat will sound neither like a Strat nor like a LP or SG.

My 2 cents