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Author Topic: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.  (Read 49201 times)

Dave Sloven

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2013, 03:16:32 PM »
I've got problems with the binding on the neck of my SG Standard, and it will hopefully be fixed under warranty without having to send it to Melbourne.  Apparently the fretboard 'pops' slightly when glued in and the binding is pushed away from the frets ever so slightly, but enough to cause a problem with the high E string.  After I called the dealer regarding mine he had another one come in just like it, so I'm assuming it was common around 2011 (when mine was made) with the last rosewood fretboard SGs before the woods were confiscated (and subsequently returned, apparently).

I expected Gibson QC to be better than that on the Standard series, but apparently it isn't

Thankfully prices have been discounted here for a while, so I only paid $1650, nothing too outrageous, but you expect to be getting something decent in a Standard series Gibson.
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Twinfan

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2013, 03:25:24 PM »
you expect to be getting something decent in a Standard series Gibson.

The trouble is though it's not like the old days where there was one pile of maple, one pile of mahogany and one team of builders.  Every raw material is graded into Studio/Standard/CS or Mexican/USA Std/CS and the time allocated to finishing is restricted.  Everything is built to its respective price point.

"You get what you pay for" has never been more true.

Dmoney

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2013, 03:33:16 PM »
The last time I played a 3k Gibson it sounded and felt like a 400 bucks Indonesia made Ibanez to me, heck I own one of these and it's still better than most Gibsons that cost two grands or more! (Sorry Philly  :lol:)

You managed to find a Gibson with a skinny little neck like a toothpick?  :? :P

last modern LP Standard I played felt like it had a narrow-ish and shallow neck, and it felt too light and therefore was probably weight relieved. It did have a cool top, but that was all. It didn't feel correct to me, in comparison to other LP's

I think the current Standards have a neck with an asymmetrical profile (like a Music Man), can't remember the exact measurements but it's somewhere between the '50s and '60s necks.  Custom Shop LPs have more traditional neck shapes, some fat, some relatively skinny.  None of them are like Ibanez necks!

But what do you mean, "felt too light"?  Guitars can't be too light!  :P

My LP is just slightly less than 8 pounds, that's with a solid body, not weight relieved.  :D

I don't think it was asymmetric and it wasn't a current one, just a second hand one from recent years. It felt like it must have been semi hollow. its was most likely this kind of setup which was on '08s...



I didn't like the neck shape, it felt wide and thin. I also didn't like how it resonated acoustically and how that fed back into my fingers (sounds cheesy but its the best way I can explain it). It just wasn't comfortable to play. I don't mind heavy-ish guitars and I always play standing up. But when a les paul is super light I just think it's odd.

Afghan Dave

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2013, 03:39:03 PM »
With big brands you are also paying for their marketing/advertising/endorsement programs, and though some of that might make you feel more "special" for owning one it does impact on price.

Nothing wrong with that at all but if you can get one of these 20th anniversary Felines for just under £3000, I don't ever want to spend more for a name on the headstock & brand perception.

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28587.0

I'm not talking about re-sale values when branding once again matters but owning a thing for itself.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 03:41:21 PM by Afghan Dave »
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BigB

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2013, 04:01:18 PM »
The trouble is though it's not like the old days where there was one pile of maple, one pile of mahogany and one team of builders.  Every raw material is graded into Studio/Standard/CS or Mexican/USA Std/CS

I really think this is a urban legend. Grading woods takes more time (hence money) than just taking the first plank from the pile. Well, CS might be a bit different indeed - they would at least select the maple for it's figures (which don't add anything to the tone FWIW).
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PhilKing

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2013, 04:12:27 PM »
I have quite a lot of different things from very expensive vintage instruments (which fortunately I didn't pay a lot for!), to very cheap guitars.  For me (like Twinfan and others), it's the feel and the acoustic properties I care about.  My 53 Les Paul is really light and has had the neck shaved so it is not as baseball bat like.  That and the conversion to 58 spec stops it being a collectors item, but to me it is a brilliant guitar with a ton of mojo and unique character.  I was lucky enough to get it for $2k before the used market went haywire and it will be one of the last guitars I ever sell (just before my 1960 strat!).  I also have several custom made instruments from WezV, Will Scott, Nieal McDunnough and Bravewood, with an anniversary Feline Lion and a double neck WezV on the way.  I know that these guitars cost me more than I will get for them, but it's the same with the Warmoth builds I've made.  I'm lucky enough not to worry about resale value (because I hate to part with guitars), but I do care how much I pay.  My Feline 2012 Anniversary will be my most expensive guitar in terms of cost, however I have been talking with Jon for years and love the feel of the Lions, so when this limited run came up and I was able to have a small mod made (using a wrap around rather than stop & bridge), that decided me.  I also loved the look of #7 and playing it last month before it went for spraying felt like it was one of my old guitars.

With amps I have pretty much the same view.  I have old Fenders and Marshalls and also Ceriatones, MJW and McIntyre custom amps.  I started to get into them with John McIntyre many years ago and have worked on his stand at NAMM many times in the 1990's.  At the moment my go to amp is my Class 5, but that is because I lost most of my speaker cabs in hurricane Sandy, and I'm still trying to get the house fixed before I replace them.  My original quest with custom amps was to get the sound I wanted at a lower volume for recording and because I lived in an apartment.  My favourite full rig is a 2 amp set up with a Silver Jubilee 50w Combo & a Fender Deluxe Reverb, however that's not really a practical set up for many reasons and so I started to look at other options (begining with a Sholtz Power soak on a Princeton Reverb and going through a few rack mounted pre-amps).

I have Bare Knuckles in many of my guitars and have known Tim for many years and go down to his place at least once a year.  This is my decision as I prefer the sound of his pickups to many others that I have tried and I like his tone choices.  Because I don't go for mint vintage guitars, many times they'll have SD's or DiMarzios fitted, so pulling the pickups and putting in BK's is really a no brainer.  Same with my custom made guitars, practically all of them are BK's.  It helps the the makers also like BK pickups, so they have an opinion too, which I can take into consideration.  I've made some c--kups with custom pickups too (AV Apaches don't sound great - that's why Tim doesn't make them, but I convinced him to make me a set a long time ago!).  It's all part of the learning process and I think boutique gear falls into the same space.  Some are great and some are not.

I've probably wasted a lot of money through the years, but I don't regret it, as I have had a lot of fun too and met many people who share my views and passions.  To me there is a point at which I have to say woah that's too much, and unfortunately the PRS Private Stocks are probably in that category.  However, if people have the money I don't begrudge them the opportunity to own them (and truth to be told I could sell some guitars and get one if I wanted).  I still like vintage instruments, so most of my money does go there (and into the house just recently).  I was debating between one of the PRS Signatures and a 1971 LP Custom and 72 55 Special a couple of years ago, and went for the 2 vintage ones.  I may still go for an artist model or modern eagle in the future, if I find one that suits me, but everytime I look at the cost of the private stocks I start to look at vintage guitars again!

I'm still interested in the reviews, just because I like guitars and amps in general, and I hope that they will save me some money by steering me clear of things I won't like.  Though to be fair, I really like to try something for myself before I buy it.
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Toe-Knee

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2013, 04:15:45 PM »
I have a hand made amp, a Wienbrock Gaucho, designed and made by James Healey of Healey Amplification Ltd.

A familiar name - he used to be a regular, if infrequent, visitor to this forum.

James is a good friend of mine and yes he was a regular on here. He put forward his ideas of starting an amp company and a few scoffed at the idea saying his pricing was too high and questioning the quality. He didn't come back too often after that.

He now owns his own company and his doing rather well for himself since leaving Wienbrock.
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Toe-Knee

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2013, 04:18:05 PM »
No, pure guess work which does infact make me an asshole, however, I have owned a bunch of nice fiddles that I've posted pics of here in the past and this is the kinda thing that jars me "I want the maximum touch sensitivity that I can get, and the Collection is fantastic for that, it just has a touch 'more' of everything a USA PRS has", sure I'm down with that 100% but "if your playing style and ears are sensitive enough to appreciate it". It ain't gonna be anymore special than the Briggs, Fibenare, blah blah blah I've owned and is pretty much what I expect to hear from an owner of a £14k guitar. I know I'm gonna come across as a total tw@t if I continue and I don't want to. When an earlier poster said you owned one I was a bit worried about you reading it and getting offended haha :)

Hey, I don't offend easily ( :) ) and I know I'm very much in the minority when it comes to gear and my experiences.

I'm not saying my guitar is any more special than a Huber/Briggs/Feline etc, it's just more special to me than any of those and that's why I could justify buying it.  As Philly and others have said, it's very much personal preference and what you want from a guitar.

My comment about "if your playing style and ears are sensitive enough to appreciate it" wasn't supposed to come across as snobbish, that's not what I intended.  I was trying to say that some folks are cursed/blessed with a sensitivity to all the tiny nuances of a guitar/amp and every little change is either good/bad.  To others, these tiny details get lost and they can't see what all the fuss is about.  I can't explain or justify my perception to them, and likewise they can't tell me it all sounds the same - we just see the same things differently.

Unfortunately I can spot the tiniest of differences in guitars, so nothing was ever quite good enough for me - I could always pick fault in some aspect of the tone/playing experience/sustain etc.  The Collection V is truly faultless in my eyes, and so I had to have it.  I wouldn't trade it for any other musical instrument on the planet.

I do wonder if we recorded your collection PRS and say a SE and a cu24 with the exact same pickups and setup and played them back without anyone knowing which was which if anyone including yourself could really tell the difference.

Personally i doubt it.
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Afghan Dave

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2013, 04:30:58 PM »


I do wonder if we recorded your collection PRS and say a SE and a cu24 with the exact same pickups and setup and played them back without anyone knowing which was which if anyone including yourself could really tell the difference.

Personally i doubt it.

I too bet we couldn't tell the difference..

But... I think a specific intrument can "feel" better and bring out the best in the player so Twinfan/Dave might be inspired to play in a way he simply wouldn't be on an Epiphone.

So, I think the lack of sonic difference is not the killer argument.
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Dmoney

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2013, 04:32:30 PM »
Toe-Knee, apparently most people aren't cursed with the ability to hear these nuances and a recording would not demonstrate the feel or touch sensitivity. You might have to go find some private and collection PRS' and test em out and hope you can perceive the differences.

Philly Q

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2013, 04:42:44 PM »
I don't think it was asymmetric and it wasn't a current one, just a second hand one from recent years. It felt like it must have been semi hollow. its was most likely this kind of setup which was on '08s...



I didn't like the neck shape, it felt wide and thin. I also didn't like how it resonated acoustically and how that fed back into my fingers (sounds cheesy but its the best way I can explain it). It just wasn't comfortable to play. I don't mind heavy-ish guitars and I always play standing up. But when a les paul is super light I just think it's odd.

Not cheesy at all, I know exactly what you mean.  Personally I like it when you can feel the resonance "feeding back" through your fingers in that way!
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Toe-Knee

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2013, 04:43:05 PM »


I do wonder if we recorded your collection PRS and say a SE and a cu24 with the exact same pickups and setup and played them back without anyone knowing which was which if anyone including yourself could really tell the difference.

Personally i doubt it.

I too bet we couldn't tell the difference..

But... I think a specific intrument can "feel" better and bring out the best in the player so Twinfan/Dave might be inspired to play in a way he simply wouldn't be on an Epiphone.

So, I think the lack of sonic difference is not the killer argument.

Im not debating feel at all. I'm just trying to think where these tiny details actually become completely irrelevant.

Personally i don't appear to be blessed with golden ears/fingers because i've played a fair few PRS guitars from differing pricings granted the most expensive was £5k which oddly enough played and sounded the worst and then the only one i actually enjoyed is whatever Brow has.
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Afghan Dave

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2013, 04:43:49 PM »
STOP!

Listen..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFZKlfRrGbw

Ahh isn't that better...
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Philly Q

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2013, 04:53:00 PM »
Im not debating feel at all. I'm just trying to think where these tiny details actually become completely irrelevant.

From the point of view of someone listening to a recording, or to a band on stage, they are completely irrelevant.  The relevance is only to the person actually playing the guitar.

As a listener, I shouldn't think I could tell the difference between a Squier Affinity and a Nik Huber Dolphin.  But if I played them, I'd know which I preferred.  Who knows, it might be the Squier, but if - for the sake of argument - it was the Huber, it's up to me whether I think those tiny details make it worth paying the extra.
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Telerocker

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Re: 'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.
« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2013, 06:38:33 PM »
The question is: how boutique is BKP? We all want them, don't we?

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