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Author Topic: Overdrives to push tube amps  (Read 12988 times)

CommonCourtesy

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Overdrives to push tube amps
« on: October 14, 2014, 08:22:03 PM »
So I currently own the trusty Ibanez TS9 tubescreamer, the normal one, no re-issues or anything. Currently run it in front of a 6505+ and it is pretty good at tightening up the flubby lead channel as well as giving the palm mutes some extra beef.

There's other overdrives out there I'm interested to know about, if they're any better at driving and amp, the Maxon OD808, Zakk Wylde overdrive, FullTone OCD and TS808 are a few that I see being run as clean boosts.

Anyone got any experience with using these with similar sorts of amps? Am I better off using something else?

JimmyMoorby

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2014, 08:50:20 PM »
For that purpose you cant really beat a tubescreamer.  I use a CMATMODS Signa Drive for this purpose (To boost a 5150 iii) its a tubescreamer knock off and I think I prefer it to the tubescreamers I had.....or maybe I just have a vivid imagination!?

I had a zw overdrive and i sold it for some reason......it wasnt bad but obviously i wanted some thing else at the time.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 08:52:10 PM by JimmyMoorby »

Dave Sloven

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2014, 11:00:57 PM »
An alternative is the MXR Custom Badass Modified O.D.

It's cheap and versatile in its EQ.  It is somewhere between a tube screamer and a super distortion.

I wouldn't get rid of your tubescreamer but it would give you a different sound to play with, without being too much for the Peavey's lead channel and ending up in uncontrollable feedback territory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSTy9uk_kGY

Comparison with TS9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrLhiS3Ls0
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gwEm

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 10:43:33 AM »
Here are the pedals I like for clean boost:

Klon (Juansolo Klone)
Maxon OD820
Boss GE7 EQ pedal with Monte Allums kit
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MrBump

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 12:37:57 PM »
Definite vote for a Juan Solo Klon - but if you want to be a little different, try a treble booster in front.  They give a drive channel a different flavour.
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dave_mc

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 01:34:14 PM »
I'd have thought it you want to tighten it up you want something either with a bass cut, or with a bass knob. So that (at least in my experience) rules out things like the klon, OCD, etc.

If you like your TS I'm not sure I'd run round trying millions of very slight variations on the TS thing. I'm not sure there's going to be a ton (if any) difference between yours, the ts808, the maxon od808 (which is actually a ts10, yet it's the more popular one because of the name, who says guitarists are full of it? :laugh: ), maxon od9 etc. EDIT: and yeah I realise I'm a total hypocrite saying that considering how many TS-types I have. :laugh:

If you want to try some slight upgrades/mods on the TS thing that might be worth a try- visual sound route 808, digitech bad monkey and hardwire tube od, etc. etc. Whether they actually work any better (I'm not sure they do) is another thing, though- just because they're advertised as "improved" doesn't necessarily mean they'll work any better if you just want the "TS tightening up a high gain tube amp" thing (which you already have). In my experience those "improved" ones normally have the advantage if you want to use them as a standalone overdrive into a clean channel (or at least if you want to use some overdrive from the pedal, even if the amp is a bit crunchy). The "improved" ones often (though not always, and some give you the option of either sound) "fix" the mid hump and bass cut, which is great when used as a standalone OD, but actually works against you when tightening a high gain amp (at least, in my experience). :laugh:

Boss SD1 is pretty nice. Sort of TS-ish, but a bit brighter/edgier. Cheap enough too to give it a shot. Daphon does a cheapo clone, but most of the time it's not all that much cheaper than the Boss version (though it doesn't seem to have the bypass bleed). I think the badass modified OD Agent Orange suggested is a glorified/"improved" SD1 (though I haven't tried it).

If you want to try something much more transparent, a timmy (or in my case the discontinued cheapo danelectro clone)  is probably my favourite for that. Though it's far from the only one- the digitech screamin blues will do it on the cheap (and has a bass knob unlike the boss BD2 which it's, er, "inspired by"). It's also worth pointing out that (at least in my experience), the more transparent/flatter response ODs don't have the mid-boost and compression of tubescreamer-style overdrives, which I also think helps with tightening up a high gain amp.

Just to clarify- I haven't tried every single pedal I listed there, and I also don't have a 6505, that's based on boosting my own high gain amps (engl savage se, laney gh50L, jet city 50 watt head), and at pretty low home volumes.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 01:44:32 PM by dave_mc »

CommonCourtesy

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2014, 02:03:39 PM »
I won't be getting rid of the TS9 anytime soon, just looking around to see what else is out there. I mean the screamer and 6505+ work well together, but keep seeing stuff about the OD808 and other overdrives. Even seen a handwired tubescreamer which is £300+!!

I do have a Boss SD-1 but I would've used it more for solo boosts, and I don't solo in this band so I don't need to use it. I might give it a go though, the Digitech Bad Monkey is something I've been aware of too, cos of the bass control knob.

As for the overdrive being noisy I've (finally) learnt how to use the loop of the ISP Decimator G-string, before I was hooking it up incorrectly by having it run in the FX loop only to quieten down the pre-amp on the lead channel, but as it was right in front of the amp it made noise if too much pre gain was used (i.e above 5). Now I've had the 6505+ lead channel modded so its silent I don't need to fiddle around with the effects loop, instead just run the tubescreamer through the loop of the ISP and running the guitar straight through so cleans aren't affected. My pre-gain is now on 4 and the drive is on zero on the pedal, level around 1 o'clock. No noise now.

Toe-Knee

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2014, 05:35:13 PM »
I won't be getting rid of the TS9 anytime soon, just looking around to see what else is out there. I mean the screamer and 6505+ work well together, but keep seeing stuff about the OD808 and other overdrives. Even seen a handwired tubescreamer which is £300+!!

I do have a Boss SD-1 but I would've used it more for solo boosts, and I don't solo in this band so I don't need to use it. I might give it a go though, the Digitech Bad Monkey is something I've been aware of too, cos of the bass control knob.

As for the overdrive being noisy I've (finally) learnt how to use the loop of the ISP Decimator G-string, before I was hooking it up incorrectly by having it run in the FX loop only to quieten down the pre-amp on the lead channel, but as it was right in front of the amp it made noise if too much pre gain was used (i.e above 5). Now I've had the 6505+ lead channel modded so its silent I don't need to fiddle around with the effects loop, instead just run the tubescreamer through the loop of the ISP and running the guitar straight through so cleans aren't affected. My pre-gain is now on 4 and the drive is on zero on the pedal, level around 1 o'clock. No noise now.

A tubescreamer is a tubescreamer unless its the od820 but thats not really a tubescreamer

with regards to the TS7/9/808 they're all practically the same pedal with very minor circuit differences that don't neccesarily translate into tonal differences.


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Toe-Knee

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 05:36:23 PM »
I'd have thought it you want to tighten it up you want something either with a bass cut, or with a bass knob. So that (at least in my experience) rules out things like the klon, OCD, etc.



The OCD is actually my preferred way of tightening up a heavy tone. Knock the gain down to 0 and just use the level and tone and you get a really focused tight sound without as drastic a low end drop off but it's still plenty tight and aggressive.

Edit: Actually I was wrong above. My preferred way of tightening my tone up is to switch to a guitar with EMGs and use my MKIIC+ I don't really use boosts of any kind much anymore now that I don't have cr@p amps.  :cool:
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CommonCourtesy

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 06:08:49 PM »
Lol if I was a signed artist I'd be trying out different shizz every day! I have a preference towards the American high gain sound as opposed to the British vintage rock tone, a lot of the bands I listen to are these American heavy gain drop tuned metalcore type bands that lean towards Mezzy B and Peavey amps.

Killswitch use OD808's in front of their amps, I'm aware. My favourite band is A Day To Remember, I know one guitarist uses the Ibanez Handwired Tubescreamer, the other has recently switched to Custom Audio amps, don't know what he's running as a drive, if anything.

Kiichi

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 09:46:46 PM »
When it comes to pushing tubes I have three personal heros:
1. Tubescreamer. No suprise there, but there are many variations. The defining factor is the mid hump. Man I really gotta get mine out again, been a while. Because of:
2. Klone. There is the original and then there is the one Juansolo does, which is the one I have and treat like a god. It can do clean boost, overdrive, or (my favorite) the driving "more" setting, where it just multiplies all the goodness of a proper tube amp. The beauty is that it is extremly transparent and just about every setting does something great. If I were asked to name one pedal that everyone should have it is the Juansolo Klon(e). Utterly phantastic.
3. Zvex Super Hard On. While this is a clean boost it is also so much more. It does not feel like it just amplifies the signal from the pickups, it seems to suck more tone out of them. That is what makes it brilliant. The result is a tightened enhanced tone. Combine it with toneshaping pedals and bäm!
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Plenum n Heather

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2014, 01:15:57 PM »
I agree w most of the posts above, perhaps it's not another overdrive you need but a foundation/boost pedal that you can stack with you TS for tonal variety.

The most common ones have already been mentioned: Klon, SHO, and an EQ.

Most Catalinbread pedal will also fit the bill for what you are looking for.

On the obscure end of the pool are the Rawkworks Light Drive, Lizard Legs Flying Dragon, Hermida Zen Drive, and my personal favorite, the JColoccia Horus.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 01:18:15 PM by Plenum n Heather »

CommonCourtesy

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2014, 01:46:24 PM »
All this talk of "mid-humping" and stuff baffles me, I'm never 100% sure where to put my mids on the amp, usually its on 6/7 which is quite high for a heavier sound as alot of high gain bands prefer to scoop the mids out, but I can't hear myself in the mix if I do it. If kicking on a tubescreamer boosts its more I should ought to back off a little bit of mid on the amp?

I have the Ceramic Nailbomb in the bridge position of my main guitar now, used to own an Aftermath which was too middy. The tubescreamer does help fatten up power chords and stuff. I claim it be my "secret weapon" haha.

Toe-Knee

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2014, 02:31:20 PM »
All this talk of "mid-humping" and stuff baffles me, I'm never 100% sure where to put my mids on the amp, usually its on 6/7 which is quite high for a heavier sound as alot of high gain bands prefer to scoop the mids out, but I can't hear myself in the mix if I do it. If kicking on a tubescreamer boosts its more I should ought to back off a little bit of mid on the amp?

I have the Ceramic Nailbomb in the bridge position of my main guitar now, used to own an Aftermath which was too middy. The tubescreamer does help fatten up power chords and stuff. I claim it be my "secret weapon" haha.

You could happily run the mids on the amp about 3-4 with a TS.

The biggest problem with amps EQ is normally the mid control covers quite a large frequency range. Ideally to get those scooped tones you just want to take a bit out about 700hz which obviously the mid control cant do as it has to bring everything else with it.

Maybe try a GEQ?
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CommonCourtesy

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Re: Overdrives to push tube amps
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 02:34:27 PM »
I'm going to try backing it down to about 5/6 next time, trouble is at gigs when soundchecking you only got 5 seconds to test your tone before the soundguy tells you to shut up so its impossible to gauge any sound you like.

I ain't looking for a scooped sound cos I want to cut though the mix, in the past maybe its been far too high coupled with the middy pickup.