Username: Password:

Author Topic: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose  (Read 7088 times)

VintagemGear

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • BKPs:
ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« on: May 04, 2015, 06:30:55 AM »
Hello all,

I have bought a ES335 RR a while ago, and it has burstbucker (1&2?) pickups. I don't like them at all. I have also a 69SG std with the original t-tops in it, and I like them a lot more. I play mostly blues/bluesrock, but sometimes I use overdriven old jmp, so I can use more than just 'crunch'. The main amps are thus a old jmp lead circuit and a old '64 super reverb.

Now the neck pickup is almost unusable on the super reverb, way to bassy and mud. I think stormy mondays or mules are the obvious choice in this guitar, but though I think riff raffs may be a better option. Also hard to decide if I would go potted or unpotted (the t-tops are unpotted I think, clear twangy sound, almost telecaster alike).

Thanks all,
Dries

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 10:08:09 AM »
Hi, welcome to the forum.

I think Stormies, Mules, or Riff Raffs will all do a very good job, but slightly different flavours. I have all three and one 335 - my Mules are in the 335, replacing 57 Classics. The 57s were fine, but the Mules gave me that and a bit more clarity. I owned Mules and Riff Raffs at the time and debated long and hard over which set to put in (I didn't fancy doing the surgery twice!). I came so close to putting the Riff Raffs in because I thought I might want a harder, tighter, edge for the rocking and rolling. As it turned out, I loved the Mules in there, and I think the Riff Raffs would have been too "hard" with my particular 335.

How bright is this Rich Robinson 335? If it's quite bright sounding, then I suspect Riff Raffs might be a bit too hard sounding for you as well (I'm trying to think what I mean by "hard" - it's kinda punchy, but less able to do mellow, not much warmth, that's what I mean).

I've recently acquired Stormy Mondays and put them in a Les Paul (they replaced 57 Classics as well, and seemed a lot more of a "like for like" than 57 to Mules were, but again more clarity and expression). Stormies turn out to be my FAVOURITE humbucking pickups - it was Mules for several years. If the "Rich Robinson" sound grabs you, my feeling is that Stormy Mondays are what you want. They have a bottom and a sparkly, sweet, top, and this clarity that quite stunned me. The bottom end would get a bit flabby under too much gain, but it would do most late 70s early 80s rock - maybe not quite crisp enough for Killing Machine/British Steel era Judas Priest riffing, but you'd get away with it - it handles classic Thin Lizzy (Jailbreak, Bad Rep, Live and Dangerous), early AC/DC (up to Highway to Hell), etc.

If you like Rich Robinson's sound, I'd choose Stormies. If you like his sound but want a bit more edge to it, then I'd choose Mules. I'd probably avoid Riff Raffs for this myself, but that might just be how I play. If I plug the Stormie guitar in, it gives me "Black Crowes" without thinking, if I plug the Mule guitar in I have to fiddle with the amp to do the same thing. If I plug the Riff Raff guitar in (an SG), I'm usually playing some other style! (I've just been recording a song where all the guide guitars were the SG - I was struggling with the sounds while arranging, I've just replaced the guitars with Stormies and it sounds richer and wider, but with losing any definition).

My gut feeling, though, is that you're going to end up with Mules because they're a safer bet. If I was choosing for my 335 again, I'd go Stormies, no question - but then I know what they do and how I think they'll react with that maple construction and what I want out of it. But I'd be happy to play a 335 with either in and expect to get pretty much the sound I want (and the neck pickup usable).

Potted or not? I understand it doesn't make a lot of difference. All mine are unpotted, but then I don't use a lot of gain (sounds pretty much like the tones you use), and I don't play live anymore either.
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

VintagemGear

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • BKPs:
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 11:43:24 AM »
Thank you very much. I bought the guitar not really for being a RR fan, but more for the looks and specs of it. So I am not looking exactly to get his sound.

Do you think the stormy mondays are a bit in the region of my old T-tops ? They are very clear, and have a lot of string separation in the sound. But they can get a bit picky though. However I feel that my ES335 is more on the darker side, so clear pickups would be good.

And what do you think about potted/unpotted? I can get away with the t-tops and feedback, but sometimes it's a bit hard to control. If the guitar (wood) feedbacks , it's very nice and pretty easy to control, but if the pickup (cover or windings) feedback then not much can be done anymore to control it.


Dave Sloven

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4312
    • Get our album here (alnico Black Hawks)
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 12:17:55 PM »
Riff Raffs are the closest BKPs to T-Tops.

BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

VintagemGear

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • BKPs:
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2015, 06:32:28 AM »
Okay great. Maybe I should go in between the 2 with a mule in the bridge and a stormy monday in the neck?

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2015, 09:49:46 AM »
Okay great. Maybe I should go in between the 2 with a mule in the bridge and a stormy monday in the neck?

I did actually wonder that - although I've never felt the need to mix and match myself. I like how the two Mules work together, and how the two Stormies work together, and how both middle positions are tasty. I see a lot on here about folks mixing and matching, but I've never really considered doing it. I bought my first BKPs as sets, reasoning that BKP knew what they were doing, nothing more scientific than that... and my experience has been that I like the sets as sets, I've never needed less or more on either pickup.

On the unpotted - I think you'll be OK going unpotted.

EDIT: Oh yes, I forgot to add - it's my understanding too that Riff Raffs are the closest BKP equivalent to T-Tops. But I've not ever tried T-Tops myself, or really looked too deeply into the comparative magnets and windings... it's based on statements I've read on here over the years. By the way, there was a period when BKP were experimenting with a "T-Top" a few years ago - a couple of folks have prototypes I think. But I'm guessing that they weren't different enough from other BKP models to warrant releasing them as a standard set. I actually wonder whether the research went into the 10th Anniversary Sets - I didn't need pickups when they were on sale, so didn't go for them. But I must admit that reading about people's experience with the 10th Anniversaries is what convinced me to try Stormies... SO glad I did!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 10:00:09 AM by AndyR »
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

Telerocker

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 7433
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2015, 09:58:41 AM »
Okay great. Maybe I should go in between the 2 with a mule in the bridge and a stormy monday in the neck?

I did actually wonder that - although I've never felt the need to mix and match myself. I like how the two Mules work together, and how the two Stormies work together, and how both middle positions are tasty. I see a lot on here about folks mixing and matching, but I've never really considered doing it. I bought my first BKPs as sets, reasoning that BKP knew what they were doing, nothing more scientific than that... and my experience has been that I like the sets as sets, I've never needed less or more on either pickup.

On the unpotted - I think you'll be OK going unpotted.

Andy is right. The Mule-set is nicely balanced and especially the inbetween sound is a delight. Crispy but full, without being boomy.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

VintagemGear

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • BKPs:
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 10:16:27 AM »
Great info thanks.
Guess I will go with a mule set then. I will keep you guys updated :)

Just one more question, it seems that the price of sets is a bit lower at retailers then on the BKP site itself. Why is this?

Dries

Telerocker

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 7433
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 10:33:17 AM »
Great info thanks.
Guess I will go with a mule set then. I will keep you guys updated :)

Just one more question, it seems that the price of sets is a bit lower at retailers then on the BKP site itself. Why is this?

Dries

Pound - Euro ? If you are in Holland/Belgium I would buy them at the retailer.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2015, 01:03:25 PM »
Great info thanks.
Guess I will go with a mule set then. I will keep you guys updated :)

Just one more question, it seems that the price of sets is a bit lower at retailers then on the BKP site itself. Why is this?

Dries

Pound - Euro ? If you are in Holland/Belgium I would buy them at the retailer.

Also, a supplier/manufacturer can't really afford to undercut their distribution chain. If they did, no-one would want to stock their products. I assume BKP helps/protects their stockists the same way?


Anyway - good choice on the Mules :smiley:

I've been singing the praises of Stormy Mondays recently (and they are my new favourite) but, like I said, I have unpotted Mules in my 335 and they do the business.
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

VintagemGear

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • BKPs:
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 01:53:12 PM »
so you like the stormy mondays better than the mules? What kind of stuff do you play?

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2015, 03:09:50 PM »
A wide variety :grin:

Try these:

An "earlyish ZZ-Top type" song:

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32456.0

- that's all Stormy bridge pickup as far as I can remember. Played through a Yamaha THR10C going straight into the line in of my recording kit. I could have used my Laney CUB12 valve amp to get the same sort of sounds, but I've discovered that this little Yamaha box is far more convenient.

Then a pop/rock thing:

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32407.0

- that's the one that sold me on the Stormies. All the guitar parts (and there's a load of them, clean, dirty, lead, rhythm) are through my Laney CUB12, mic'd with a Shure SM57, using the same amp settings and no pedals - I was stunned. I didn't change the amp at all (I adjusted the mic position once or twice), I just used the pickup selector and the volumes/tones on the guitar to get the different sounds.

============

I do have one recording of Mules in a similar guitar (a Tokai Love Rock) - it's from 2008, the guitar would have been going through a Vox Tonelab LE straight into the recording machine:

http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/muletide

============

Personally, I found Mules more usable on most of my stuff than I did Riff Raffs - though I love the sound of the Riff Raffs. Since getting the Stormies a few months ago, though... I haven't found anything the Les Paul with Stormies won't do. They just sound like my idea of what a humbucking guitar should sound like... And I'm even using it to play parts I'd usually use a telecaster or strat for.
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

VintagemGear

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • BKPs:
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 09:24:02 PM »
So a while ago I ordered the mule set. A little mistake however was made at the dealer and a set of stormy mondays was sent. No big problem and I thought it might be good to just try them out. The neck pickup turned out to be very good, clear and defined. However the bridge was a bit weak and mushy when turned up.

I made a proposal to trade the stormy bridge for the mule, and that was Ok. So now have a stormy neck and a mule bridge, looks like a good combination! I like the sound of the neck very much, still have to get used a bit to the mule bridge, they can be a bit picky in the higher mids. However, I'm used to my beloved T-tops. I think its hard to compare new pickups to this ones.

Will make a picture for the fans

Telerocker

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 7433
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2015, 01:01:09 AM »
So a while ago I ordered the mule set. A little mistake however was made at the dealer and a set of stormy mondays was sent. No big problem and I thought it might be good to just try them out. The neck pickup turned out to be very good, clear and defined. However the bridge was a bit weak and mushy when turned up.

I made a proposal to trade the stormy bridge for the mule, and that was Ok. So now have a stormy neck and a mule bridge, looks like a good combination! I like the sound of the neck very much, still have to get used a bit to the mule bridge, they can be a bit picky in the higher mids. However, I'm used to my beloved T-tops. I think its hard to compare new pickups to this ones.

Will make a picture for the fans

Did you fiddle with the height?, because BKP's are so sensitive. Every tweak makes a difference.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

VintagemGear

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • BKPs:
Re: ES335 Rich Robinson - deciding what to choose
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2015, 06:42:05 AM »
I did, most of times I like them pretty high, close to the strings. But the mule is definitely in a other ball park.