Bridge pickup - VHII versus Black Dog for thrashy/grind applications?

[HEadoftheAges]

Howdy, folks! So I am finding that the VHII bridge in my Monson Nomad, while much more suitable than the A-bomb, is a trifle "rounded" and single-coil-like in terms of palm-muted, thrashy applications.  I am going to take the guitar to my local guitar center in an effort to put it through its paces, and I am also going to take it to my rehearsal space in an effort to hear how it sounds through my proper rig (I have only ever used it via my practice amp at home), but I was wondering how the Black Dog would fare in the guitar when it comes to tightness, growl, percussive-ness, et cetera?  The guitar strikes this strange middle-ground of being fairly warm due to the tonewoods (Mahogany neck-though, Sapele wings), but "spanky" due to other factors (walnut top, ebony board, 25" scale), so finding the proper bridge pickup for it has been a chore, to say the least.  I do love the VHII in the neck position, however.  I was also wondering if The Abraxas bridge would be a decent fit, as well.  Has anyone been known to use a Black Dog/VHII combo or an Abraxas/VHII combo?

Regards,
Alec

[Dave Sloven]

You won't be able to tell much until you have played it through your full rig.

If you can try it in a band setting with a bassist and record it on a video to listen back to it later that would be the best way to assess it.

[Yellowjacket]

You simply MUST crank it through a tube amp!

[HEadoftheAges]

So I put the VHII through its paces via an Orange Rockerverb MKIII at low volumes and GC, and through my Rockerverb MKII in my rehearsal space at full volume, and while this is the best-sounding pickup I have had in this guitar so far, I cannot help but think that the "roundedness" and "single-coil-like" quality is what is robbing the guitar of its edge; it sounds a little too "polite" for this guitar, almost "squished" in the respect that palm mutes lack that "kicked-in-the-chest" feel.  Here is what I have had in the bridge position of this instrument thus far, along with my findings.

Rebel Yell - I will say that this sounded great recorded (www.ghostbound.bandcamp.com - "Keep My Dreams Inside", if you want to hear it in action), but it proved to be a little shrill once I played it through my rig at home.
A-Bomb - Not quite the best fit - "Hairy" as other members have described it, tight, but altogether ill-fitting and strange-sounding for this instrument. 
VH-II - see aforementioned. 

I think I am leaning closer and closer to where I need to be - I am thinking that the Black Dog or even the Abraxas might be the next step.  Thoughts?

[Lucas]

in the respect that palm mutes lack that "kicked-in-the-chest" feel.  Here is what I have had in the bridge position of this instrument thus far, along with my findings.

correct me if I`m wrong but VHII bridge doesn`t have much bass and that 'big' sounding feel anyway? or I`m wrong?

[HEadoftheAges]

in the respect that palm mutes lack that "kicked-in-the-chest" feel.  Here is what I have had in the bridge position of this instrument thus far, along with my findings.

correct me if I`m wrong but VHII bridge doesn`t have much bass and that 'big' sounding feel anyway? or I`m wrong?

You could be right.  I am definitely seeing why it excels at 80s hard-rock and the vaunted "brown sound", but I am looking for something a little different.

Regards,
Alec

[Lucas]

So basically you`re missing big palm mutes with huge thump?
How would you describe VHII bridge? is it bright pickup?

[HEadoftheAges]

So basically you`re missing big palm mutes with huge thump?
How would you describe VHII bridge? is it bright pickup?

I would say it is on the bright side, yes.  It is definitely thick.  Most people describe it as being fairly organic and touch-sensitive, though I am not quite hearing that with my guitar. It is a great-sounding pickup, just not quite suitable for my needs and circumstances.

Regards, 

[Yellowjacket]

So basically you`re missing big palm mutes with huge thump?
How would you describe VHII bridge? is it bright pickup?

I would say it is on the bright side, yes.  It is definitely thick.  Most people describe it as being fairly organic and touch-sensitive, though I am not quite hearing that with my guitar. It is a great-sounding pickup, just not quite suitable for my needs and circumstances.

Regards,

Is this possible an amp / amp settings problem?  Just curious.  My Rebel Yell bridge and VHII neck are both very organic and touch sensitive.

[Dave Sloven]

TBH if you are thinking of thrash or grind I would go with a Miracle Man.

I don't know enough about your guitar to know if it would be a good fit there but it is probably the best BKP for that kind of music.

[HEadoftheAges]

TBH if you are thinking of thrash or grind I would go with a Miracle Man.

I don't know enough about your guitar to know if it would be a good fit there but it is probably the best BKP for that kind of music.

It has a Mahogany neck with an Ebony fretboard (neck-through), Sapele Body/Wings, Claro Walnut top, hard-tail, string-through construction, 25" PRS-style scale.  It's an odd guitar.  I keep it in D standard :-)

I have a Miracle Man in my Floyd-Rose Equipped, Maple-neck-through, Alder-bodied ESP E-II Horizon III, and it does not work at all...perhaps a switch is in order.  It has 53mm spacing, however.  The Monson takes 50mm spacing.  Grrrr.

Regards,
Alec

[Dave Sloven]

It would be worth switching them around if you are not happy with it in ESP.  I kind of surprised that it didn't work well there though, as the MM has a good rep in maple neck-throughs.  Hmm

[ericsabbath]

the vhII is one of the bassiest and most percussive bkp models
maybe you don't have it close enough to the strings
it has a lot of clean output for a paf-type pup
the black dog has a leaner low and a lot more center mids, so it could sound tighter and more aggressive in some guitars

but you shouldn't expect  a 9k alnico pup to sound huge for metal without any sort of booster
I'm not suggesting necessarily the usual overdrive thing, but you could benefit from parametric equalizers, clean boosters or compressors
there's no shame in using anything that makes you sound better
I personally love my tc classic sustain/parametric equalizer... I add some compression, output and center mids and voilą
there are some newer and less expensive alternatives like the tc sparkle boost and the pigtronix philosopher's tone micro that won't change much of your base tone but will deliver the extra oomph you want

[HEadoftheAges]

the vhII is one of the bassiest and most percussive bkp models
maybe you don't have it close enough to the strings
it has a lot of clean output for a paf-type pup
the black dog has a leaner low and a lot more center mids, so it could sound tighter and more aggressive in some guitars

but you shouldn't expect  a 9k alnico pup to sound huge for metal without any sort of booster
I'm not suggesting necessarily the usual overdrive thing, but you could benefit from parametric equalizers, clean boosters or compressors
there's no shame in using anything that makes you sound better
I personally love my tc classic sustain/parametric equalizer... I add some compression, output and center mids and voilą
there are some newer and less expensive alternatives like the tc sparkle boost and the pigtronix philosopher's tone micro that won't change much of your base tone but will deliver the extra oomph you want

Fair enough and duly noted, but I should mention that The Mule set  I have in semi-hollow ES-335-style guitar simply shreds when it comes to distortion (it does everything, to be fair...I loveloveLOVE this pickup) - granted, I do not use a lot of gain when it comes to chuggy/thrashy riffage, and I do prefer a "warmer" tone than, say, a "modern" one.  Mr. Ben at BKP suggested the Black Dog...my only concern would that it would be too bright, considering the Ebony board and walnut top of my otherwise dark instrument....I am vacillating between that and the Abraxas, but I will try moving the VHII closer to the strings in an effort to see if that does the trick, as well. 

Regards,
Alec

[Lucas]

I have a Miracle Man in my Floyd-Rose Equipped, Maple-neck-through, Alder-bodied ESP E-II Horizon III, and it does not work at all...perhaps a switch is in order.  It has 53mm spacing, however.  The Monson takes 50mm spacing.  Grrrr.

Regards,
Alec

Correct me if I`m wrong but as far as I understand you`re missing some aggression in VHII? How do you compare it then to Miracle Man? I have MM in extremely similar guitar (mine is bolt on though) and find MM having a quite aggressive edge in front of the note (especially on higher strings). I thought that VHII has even more of that.