Recording/Mixing help needed!

[Petre]

Hey, im not sure if thsi si the right place to post this but i need a little help with recording and such. Im a real noob to recording, but ive laid down a track or two, but they dont sound overly great. I think this is down to mixing my tracks. I hear everyone uses more than one track for each instrument. I know using one track per instrument is not what to do, but i dont understand why, and what the other tracks are used for? Is it to do with using seperate mics on a single amp and giving them each their own track? Or is it to do with  duplicating the track and EQ'ing them different or something? Input would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Petre

[jt]

:D The idea is to get a great guitar sound. It`s called double tracking. Many of the great guitar sounds of recordings & albums of the past were recorded this way. It enabled you to get a variety of sounds & then mix them all together in order to create one "big" sound as it were.

Don`t be afraid to experiment.  Try recording with different mics at different distances from the speakers. Then when you mix it "Blend" it into one big sound.

 :D  8)

[Jamieh]

Yes, jt's answer above is correct... but probably not the answer to your problems.

You don't say what gear you are using, or what your specific disappointment with your sound is.... tell us that and we can help more specifically I should imagine. What is your setup for starters!

http://www.kvraudio.com/

Is the palce online to find out about recording, but as a newbie you may find it a bit dawnting at first!

[TwilightOdyssey]

I posted a thread not long ago about recording electric guitar,
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3436

You may find it useful! I think you've already seen this thread, tho.

The best thing to do is practice & practice until you get a method that's comfortable to you.

[Petre]

ah cheers for the replies.

For equipment ive just got an m-audio firewire solo with a shure sm57.
Basically my sound i feel is really 2d. Just sounds a little thin and such. I cant really explain very well. It needs filling out. I tried EQ'ing the tracks so they have much more bass, which helps a fairly nice amount. But it sounds like double-tracking is exactly what i require.

About this double tracking, what does it involve exactly? Copying the recording across a number of tracks and getting different sounds out of them all? Or is it more of setting up a fair amount of mics and giving them seperate tracks? Or is it even doing the same takes but mic'ed differently.. Id imagine the latter would sound very messy unless ur playing was seriously tight.

Thanks
Petre

EDIT - Oh and TO, i read that and it was seriously helpful thanks :) . It was more of the mixing side of things rather than micing iw as having trouble with. As for the neat techniques you posted, i need an interface that allows multiple mics. Its yet another thing on my ever-growing list of musical needs!

[TwilightOdyssey]

In double tracking, you record the identical guitar parts twice, on seperate tracks. There will be minor differences between the takes. When you pan them, you will end up with a very wide guitar sound!

[38thBeatle]

Also, when panning double tracked parts,  dont pan too wide- I was always told  that , to use a clock face as imagery -10 to 2 is about right-I hope you are aware of what panning is-I don't know how much you know. TO explained what double tracking is and indeed it is the slight differences that make it such a valuable tool.

[jt]

:D Try mic in different positions. I useally try micing the cab from behind as a lot of the sound comes out of the back & because it`s going thru all that wood to get there it helps thicken it up.

38th Beatle is right don`t pan it right across to extremes, you just want to help get a bit of seperation to it.

TO [ Hi Ben ] is right you record your guitar again. You don`t just have to do this twice you can do it as many times as you like. Randy Rhoads did it 3 to 4 times on every song he thought needed it. It`s what helped to create that intense sound he had.

 :D  8)

[Jamieh]

About this double tracking, what does it involve exactly? Copying the recording across a number of tracks and getting different sounds out of them all? Or is it more of setting up a fair amount of mics and giving them seperate tracks? Or is it even doing the same takes but mic'ed differently.. Id imagine the latter would sound very messy unless ur playing was seriously tight.

Proper double tracking is when you play the same part over and over again.

Your playing has to be as tight as possible, but you'd be surprised at how the minor differences can actually add to the sound.

James Hetfield does this all the time, most Metallica stuff is double tracked (or more than double in fact) and he will play the rhythm guitar part and then go back over, mute what he has just done and do it again, and again.

I have read that it is better to mute what you did before so you are playing "fresh" each time, then turn them all on, a small stereo spread and there you go, big thick heavy guitars!! :D

[Petre]

ah right awesome. Thanks guys. Its a bit of a bummer for me, my playing can be quite sloppy, but il ldef give it a try in a second. Gonna have a play with double tracking and such on my new fiddle  :P

Yea i know what panning is and such so no worries there. Just a quick question tho, if i've double-tracked and panned them both slightly to each side, hwo would i go about having one guitarist panned 50% left, and one 50% right. When i record with my friend chris this is our setup. Would i just try and keep the spacing similar so, 50% left, 30% left on one guitar, 50% right and 30% right on other guitar. Or is that really not gonna work? I it just a case of experimenting?

Thanks guys, you've been a huge help  :)
Petre

[Searcher]

ah cheers for the replies.

For equipment ive just got an m-audio firewire solo with a shure sm57.
Basically my sound i feel is really 2d. Just sounds a little thin and such. I cant really explain very well.

Shure SM57 mikes tend to give a bit of a thin sound.  They're better for lead tones than for rhythm, especially if miking a very loud amp.  Something like a Sennheiser MD-421 will give you a bigger sound, but, of course, will be more expensive than your SM57.

[hunter]

I also find it very cool to use different sounds/amps on different takes, e.g. a rich mid heavy 80s sound on one side and a scooped rectifier on the other, for balancing them out, I'd rather use my ears than the level meter.

[Jamieh]

I also find it very cool to use different sounds/amps on different takes, e.g. a rich mid heavy 80s sound on one side and a scooped rectifier on the other, for balancing them out, I'd rather use my ears than the level meter.

Yeh!  Definitely a good idea. Also what I have done in the past, on choruses and stuff is play a very mildy distorted, almost clean track as well so you can bring in extra note definition, helps strengthen melodies.... in the right situation of course!

[Petre]

omg you guys rock! I just tried double tracking and it gets me a much fuller textured sound! Exactly what i needed. I am definately gonna look into a fuller mic tho, as searcher suggested. I may get a fuller mic as my second mic. I only have one mic right now, so i had to record the same take about 5 times (was goin nuts trying different mic positions and settings on my pedal). Big downside was i was goin a little out of sync towards the end of my riff which gave a horrible sounding reverb effect. Then again, i was playing to a mteronome i could barely hear rather than to drums. Anyways, much better sound was achieved and once i got my BKP's and an actual Valve amp, i should have a great recording tone :) .

Also, to save me doing so many takes, i was going to purchase a second SM57, but this fuller mic sounds alot more tempting and wil lhopefully contribute to that fuller sound.

Thanks alot guys! you made my day!
Petre

[Searcher]

I had to record the same take about 5 times (was goin nuts trying different mic positions and settings on my pedal).

Welcome to the world of recording.  :lol:   Getting a good mic placement and mixing the track both take way longer than actually playing it.

A lot of people use SM57s for demos and live gigs, and they're ok for recording if you're prepared to do a bit of EQing, but, like I said, there are better mics out there.

Have fun!  :)