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Author Topic: Trvium's new song.  (Read 15045 times)

chrisola

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Trvium's new song.
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2006, 11:05:19 PM »
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Yeah those solos are cool, i do love that album but... you only see what roadrunner and the bands want you to see, how do you know that they hadn't been sitting there working on it for hours befor hand? it's not like it was a constant live documentary of the process.



True, although they did show numerous takes of the Annihilator guy (jeff waters?) completely messing his solo up ;)

I can sorta slowly sweep but ONLY over 3 strings...i think it has its place but if theres so many people doing it that it needs to be different (ie not have that 'stock' neo classical sound to it) to be impressive, not just 'woooo sweepy time looky looky'

Bands like DragonForce are pretty creative solo wise, Trivium just seem to be stuck in 'fan boy' mode, which is fine and i wish them well, but until they break out of that mode they are going to release inoffensive generally solid metal albums that you can take or leave and not miss out.. theres nothing (yet) that makes me go 'holy shite have you heard that new Trivium track, the solo is KILLER' or 'wow, now THATS a riff..where my guitar?!'.

Am looking forward to the new Trivium album though...i think they have the potential to be as good as the press hypes them up to be
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Davey

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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2006, 11:15:20 PM »
Quote from: chrisola


Bands like DragonForce are pretty creative solo wise


umm...


no, no... no, no and no.


they only got two solos in their repperoaire.. a sweep picking solo and a tapping solo. then they repeat that one over and over and over and over. guys like paul gilbert, jeff loomis, marty friedman ... ... are creative solo vise, not those hacks from dragonsuck.

HTH AMPS

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« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2006, 12:47:02 AM »
Quote from: Davey
Quote from: chrisola


Bands like DragonForce are pretty creative solo wise


umm...


no, no... no, no and no.


they only got two solos in their repperoaire.. a sweep picking solo and a tapping solo. then they repeat that one over and over and over and over. guys like paul gilbert, jeff loomis, marty friedman ... ... are creative solo vise, not those hacks from dragonsuck.


I generally don't use the word 'hate' lightly, but that Dragonforce band really get to me.  Their playing (while very accomplished) seems more of a 'look how clever I am' statement rather than a musical one within the context of a song.

Listen to a good Slayer solo - it goes somewhere and takes the song to a new level.  The same can be said with Dime, Zakk Wylde, Dave Mustaine, even Kirk Hammet back in the day.  


 :twisted:

chrisola

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« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2006, 01:37:19 AM »
no other band sounds like Dragonforce...making crazy guitar sounds and hyper speed harmony solos and going mad with computer game noises and keyboards etc  is pretty different and a little creative in my book.

I dont see how dragonforce's solos dont do anything for the song? Thats what the SONG is about! Take them out or replace them with a generic shred solo and theyd just be another (albeit fast) power metal band with nothing original to say or try.

I'm a fan of all the players\bands you guys mention and DF is right up there with them in my opinion... although they seem to have more of a love\hate thing going on with fans.. its either 'wow that was different.. cool' or 'eeek what a mess, turn it off!' ;)
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deg0ey

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« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2006, 08:39:02 AM »
I don't listen to Dragonforce for the guitar work - I listen to it for the whole effect...The drums and vocals are the important part :drink:
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maliciousteve

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« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2006, 10:13:00 AM »
You have to admit though, they are VERY repeatative. I couldn't tell one song from another

Crazy_Joe

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« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2006, 01:05:36 PM »
As much as i like Slayer, which i do, i think their solos are absolute cr@p.

The Annihilator guitarist Jeff Waters is an amazing guitarist, and i don't think anyone can do that solo in one or two takes, so that was a pretty unfair comment.
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chrisola

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« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2006, 01:06:12 PM »
once you get into them, you can tell one 'meedily meeeeeeeeedily meedily wwwwwwwwwwiiiiiiizoooooooooooo meedle meedle meedle meedle meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelilolol' bit from another :lol:


Jeff Waters seems like a nice guy 'i cant play like this if i think about it' but after he called himself the fastest, tightest playing guitarist in the world bar none (hes not even CLOSE) i never really bothered getting into his bands stuff..
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deg0ey

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« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2006, 04:42:07 PM »
Quote from: maliciousteve
You have to admit though, they are VERY repeatative. I couldn't tell one song from another


Oh I know, I've never got past the 3rd track on the album as it's too much to take in one go - but it's good while it lasts :drink:
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dave_mc

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« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2006, 05:03:44 PM »
Quote from: deg0ey
I agree...I never learned to sweep, as I'm not hugely interested in being able to play that fast - but I always thought it would be cool if people tried sweep picking across only 3 strings. Could extend the variety of patterns used somewhat methinks :drink:


i thought lots of guys sweeped across 3 strings... i know friedman (ex-megadeth) does it a lot (definitely over 4 strings), he's basically what beaulieu wants to be (as I've said before). he manages to be both incredibly melodic, dynamic, and shreddy at the same time- and at the same time incorporating excellent touches like eastern scales, and koto bends to put in subtle inflections to the notes he plays.

Again, I must reiterate that I quite like trivium- but I'm not so naive to believe (or even think!) that they're the best metal band there is, or the best soloists. They're far from it. They may be a step in the right direction, but in a perfect world there would be other bands that were several more steps in the right direction...

EDIT: I quite like dragonforce too. Again, I don't think li and totman are as good as everyone says they are either (much like the trivium guys). while they are good, I kind of rate them as "good" rather than amazing- the guys who say they're amazing tend not to be familiar with the guys I'd qualify as "amazing"- mainly the shredders from the 80's- guys like vai, satch, gilbert, EVH, Lynch, malmsteen, timmons, friedman, becker, nuno etc.

plus, I tend to judge a player by their feel first- how good their vibrato is, how musical they make each note sound, BEFORE i rate their chops. Anyone can practice enough to get good chops- you do need talent, I agree, and if you have talent it'll take less practice to get that good, but if you gave a total duffer 20 years of 10 hours per day practice, I'd think they could shred pretty well at the end of that- shredding is mainly mechanical skill. But you can't practice "musicality" as well- I think EVH said once that he heard two pianists play the same piece of music, and one was technically perfect, but it lacked a little something- it was too mechanical. While with the other guy, every note was beautiful, the music just flowed through his fingers.

So I guess that's what I'm not so fond of with a lot the newer shredders in popular bands like trivium. There's hardly any blues or feel in their solos, which the 80's guys (in my opinion at least) still had. They also seem to be playing easier examples of shredding (like shadows fall will use a 3 string sweep where an 80's guy would have used 4 or 5) to make them sound better than they are- a bit like the way jeff beck said that you could play easy stuff that sounded hard (though jeff beck rules!).

So, umm, yeah. None of the modern players in a lot of the popular metal bands really impresses me. Like amott of arch enemy said recently in an interview I read, the only reason people think he's a guitar god is because there's nobody any better- he said he wouldn't have stood a chance in the 80's. And while I agree, I think amott is one of the good modern players!

Um, rant over, lol.

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deg0ey

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« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2006, 06:26:36 PM »
Quote from: dave_mc
i thought lots of guys sweeped across 3 strings... i know friedman (ex-megadeth) does it a lot (definitely over 4 strings)


It's very possible - I don't listen to much music of that type really, it's just something that I've not noticed people doing...maybe I heard it without realising what it was :drink:
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dave_mc

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« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2006, 10:04:22 PM »
^ aye, no problem. In fact, very few songs (that I listen to anyway) have full 6-string sweeps. I use 4 string sweeps a lot- they're the best balance between being reasonably simple (6 take a lot more effort and you can't really throw them in as easily to normal playing, they're almost like a circus trick) but still being worth the bother to actually sweep them (2 or 3 string ones you can almost just alternate pick).

deg0ey

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« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2006, 10:10:40 PM »
That makes sense - I never bothered with sweep picking because it took effort, and it doesn't really fit in to the type of music I normally play :drink:
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genocidal tendencies

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« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2006, 12:01:15 AM »
Well that's the worst song I've heard in a while. How do these bands manage to find fans?

And about dragonforce, I stand by what I've always said - yes, their solos are nothing but cheese played too fast, but their songs are nothing but cheese played too fast. That's the whole point. And maybe it's not as impressive or difficult to play as rusty cooley's new improv which spells out the second act of Shakespeare's Othello if you consider the 0-24th frets as A to Y respectively with each word spelled by sweep picking over however many strings that stupid thing has (antidisestablishmentarianism was a tough one...) but frankly, who cares? When did we start judging music by how much we could admire the guys playing it? When did we stop just listening?

Sekhmet

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« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2006, 12:14:16 AM »
^Best reply ever!

As for annihilator, they rule :-) if you like exceptionally tounge in check thrash, imagine Anthrax to the power 10 ;-) Fun palace rules.

I don't actually listen to much dragon force, even after seeing them twice live, it's not that i don't like them i just haven't bought they're cd's, i do really like they're stuff but i'd much rather listen to some Blind Guardian or some Ensiferum for that music.
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