Author Topic: Marshall Handwired?? (Read 28024 times)

deg0ey · « **Reply #30 on:** September 27, 2006, 06:37:06 PM »

Now Mr Twinfan, and Mr rooky - lets all calm down slightly shall we? :P

Now Nick, please share this 'torch' story of which you speak - I'm sure we could all do with a good laugh :lol: (assuming it's a funny story - otherwise we don't really care :P)

Dakine · « **Reply #31 on:** September 27, 2006, 06:38:21 PM »

tis funny but tbh am sooooooo @@**&%$£%%** with this board right this minute I cannot be bothered!

38thBeatle · « **Reply #32 on:** September 27, 2006, 07:04:36 PM »

I agree Nick. It must be the phases of the moon or time of the month or summat

Kilby · « **Reply #33 on:** September 27, 2006, 07:08:21 PM »

I'm feeling too miserable to reply with anything worthwhile (even though I have an opinion on the matter)

Rob...

deg0ey · « **Reply #34 on:** September 27, 2006, 07:09:47 PM »

Quote from: Kilby

I'm feeling too miserable to reply with anything worthwhile (even though I have an opinion on the matter)

Rob...

*manly hug* hope you feel better soon Mr Rob

rooky · « **Reply #35 on:** September 27, 2006, 08:41:52 PM »

[quote="Twinfan Fair point.

I'd welcome a reasoned argument as to why handwired is better than PCB (all other things being equal). I've yet to hear one, and would be genuinely interested if you have one.[/quote]

Ok but I'm sorry, I can't make this short. The basic premise is that if you're going to spend loads of time (money) hand wiring an amp you're not going to compromise by knocking a few cents out of a component here and there. The tendancy with products with high assembly costs is that they will be built up to a standard and not down to a price; there is no market advantage in using high cost assembly techniques that deliver no advantage in performance or durability, it's fair to assume then that a hand wired amp will tend to have higher quality components than a more competatively priced amp.
In my original post I only mentioned the durability aspect because the performance is more subjective and would only attract lots of comments based on limited data (my mates VS100 sounds great etc). A few of the guys have mentioned transformers (transformers were called trannies long before transistors found their way into guitar amps). There's loads of cost advantage in using generic industry standard transformers and these, along with PCB's tend to be used in products that fall into the "down to a price" category. So those that spotted that simply changing the tranny gave a performance advantage were spot on. Another problem with PCBs is "cross talk". This is the contamination of a signal by induced voltages from conductors running close to and parallel to each other. Once a board has been put into production there is little scope to remedy this type of fault and the old "will they really notice" imperitive comes into play. In a hard wired amp there's plenty of scope to simply re-route the offending conductor.
The durability aspect is down the the fact that a hardwired amp will tend to have many of it's components attached to the front and rear panels and a central fibre or mica board or even a completely isolated PCB. The connections between these components will be via FLEXIBLE wiring. An amp with all PCBs will often have a large board hanging on the back of some of the panel mounted bits which despite separate chassis mounts will stress the soldered joints under any shock or vibration conditions, even vibration from the speakers. It can take years for this to manifest itself under light casual usage but believe me it happens. Only last week I repaired a five year old mixing desk that had been dropped two inches on one of the rare occssaions that it's ever moved and that highlighted more dry joints than you'd find at a Columbian spliff party. It's just simple physics.

Sorry to be so wordy but there's no other way to say it

Dakine · « **Reply #36 on:** September 27, 2006, 09:05:05 PM »

NOT read all of this (my sin) but HELLO!!!!!!!!!!

Stop bloody arguing for pities sakes.

And another thing, Hand Wired is a GREAT marketing ploy!

Whats that car on ads at moment? Proton or summit 'deigned by Lotus', MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A Lotus guy MAY have been employed but it AINT no Lotus.

Marketing 101!

ONLY way to give (ggod) advice is to own or be intimate with somthing, therefore gleaning the insight/experience that is usually requested by a poster.

Also, MANY nationalities peruse this board (great for Tim/BKP!!!!!!!) so language barriers exist. I, many moons ago, did my electrical apprentiship so know what a tranny is, but many may not. A fag in UK a cigarrete, in USA a homosexual, etc.

Basically Chill the F out in ALL these posts of late, it's getting a bloody CHORE to frequent this board and read some of this cr@p!

Twinfan · « **Reply #37 on:** September 27, 2006, 10:04:03 PM »

Rooky - cheers for the post. Some good info in there, and I can see where you're coming from. It would be interesting to find out if the HW Marshalls really DO have upgraded/more original components as you suggest. This would help to explain the price difference, but would make a mockery of the cheaper versions. Either they're a re-issue (and therefore close replica of the originals), or they're not.

Mr Dakine - you don't have to read the threads if you don't like them.

Kilby · « **Reply #38 on:** September 27, 2006, 10:44:47 PM »

Sigh !

fps_dean · « **Reply #39 on:** September 28, 2006, 04:44:42 AM »

Quote from: antosimoni

the HW and the SLP doesnt sound the same, I'm NOT sayin' that one is better than the other, only that I think there are some caps in that change the tone (however they are not 2 different worlds its obvious), I think that people have to buy the one that they prefer.. the HW IMHO has a better tone but its very high priced, it gives you also the possibility to mod your amp completely in an easy way.. but in the end its all a matter of what you're searchin' and the money you have... try 'em and choose the best... for who thinks that old ones are better... maybe but I've seen many and I can say that only a 5% where completely stock, the other or have problems or have changes inside.. beware

PS : trannies thoeries are not true

I think there are some differences between them as well but nothing a couple hundred dollars in mods will not obtain.... but the tranny bit is very much true...

rooky · « **Reply #40 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:02:48 AM »

Dakine, sorry about the agro I guess I should have explained myself better in the first place.

Anyway you'll be interested to know that Proton own Lotus Engineering which is a design consultancy that was originally part of Lotus Cars; that's some marketing ploy.

Cheers,

Rooky.

antosimoni · « **Reply #41 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:47:31 AM »

Quote from: fps_dean

Quote from: antosimoni
the HW and the SLP doesnt sound the same, I'm NOT sayin' that one is better than the other, only that I think there are some caps in that change the tone (however they are not 2 different worlds its obvious), I think that people have to buy the one that they prefer.. the HW IMHO has a better tone but its very high priced, it gives you also the possibility to mod your amp completely in an easy way.. but in the end its all a matter of what you're searchin' and the money you have... try 'em and choose the best... for who thinks that old ones are better... maybe but I've seen many and I can say that only a 5% where completely stock, the other or have problems or have changes inside.. beware

PS : trannies thoeries are not true

I think there are some differences between them as well but nothing a couple hundred dollars in mods will not obtain.... but the tranny bit is very much true...

sorry if I have a different opinion

but I own a 1959HW head and I've changed it to all type of specs ('67, '68, '69, '70s 8) ) and I can assure you that when I've changed the Tranny the sound doesnt do that "big" change that people claim, the biggest difference you can hear comes from the change of filtering type, even caps change affect the tone a very small bit especially if you have an high filtering...
also the SLP is different in sound with the HW even when you have the same type of caps/filtering in it, the sound of the SLP is a bit more "metallic" and has less "boom" and deep I think that one can hear the difference simply, if you mod the SLP this differences remain if you change Power and Output Trannies things get better but you are goin' in the price range of the HW which have stock very good Trannies...
believe it or not thats my experience :D

Dakine · « **Reply #42 on:** September 28, 2006, 11:00:47 AM »

no worries.
Yes Lotus was a mere example, just about every man and his dog have owned Lotus at one point or another (usually to gleam chassis technology). Was born into auto game (R.I.P. dad

) but outta loop for while in good ole Texas.

Anyway, am sure hand wired are just that and are good, but it surely IS a good 'marketing/selling' point also. I have NOT tried one so cannot offer opinion unfortunately.

NOT having great time here so lil 'on edge', and NOT necessarily this post but seem ot be ALOT of bad blood/arguing lately (which is NOT in constructive vein) but seems to be for childish purposes (i.e. Dragonforce thread, sheesh).

I have perused H-C at times, but generally hate the BS that goes on there.

Lets keep it Helpful and fun and real here shall we :)

deg0ey · « **Reply #43 on:** September 28, 2006, 04:33:10 PM »

:drink:

RGX · « **Reply #44 on:** September 29, 2006, 02:01:01 AM »

Stop taking the internet so seriously.