Author Topic: Bareknuckle for old-school headbanging (Read 10724 times)

suckerpunch · « **on:** February 10, 2007, 11:29:48 PM »

hello,

I've got a Jackson USA Soloist bolt-on with an alder body, maple neck, ebony fingerboard, Schaller Floyd, and 25.5" scale length. it has a single humbucker at the bridge with a single volume control.

how would the Painkiller bridge sound in this guitar? I'm needing clean to full-metal rage.

I play mainly older metal...Venom, Judas Priest, Candlemass, Mercyful Fate, King Diamond, Metal Church, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Exciter, Accept, et al.

would the Painkiller fit the bill? or should I check out the Holy Diver or Miracle Man instead?

many thanks

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2007, 11:49:24 PM »

I would say Painkiller first choice then a tie with either the HD or MM.

:twisted:

suckerpunch · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2007, 12:06:07 AM »

the Painkiller is first on my list...just going by the description and sound clips.

but I just listened to Antag's clean clip of the Holy Diver :o Holy shite is more like it.....absolutely beautiful electric clean. still debating on the HD's distortion tone.

TonyGibson · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2007, 05:06:38 AM »

Quote from: suckerpunch

the Painkiller is first on my list...just going by the description and sound clips.

but I just listened to Antag's clean clip of the Holy Diver :o Holy shitee is more like it.....absolutely beautiful electric clean. still debating on the HD's distortion tone.

I was sold on Antag's clips of the HD through his Mesa/Boogie F-50 (at least I think that's what it was). Did you listen to those? The HD sounds amazing with distortion.

Truth be told, the HD is Alnico V, and the Painkiller is ceramic. I would think if you want some level of versatility (clean, dirty and everything in between), I'd go with the HD. If it's straight metal and hard rock with no chance of playing clean I'd go with the Painkiller.

I currently have the MM and Ceramic Warpig and just ordered the Holy Divers for an Ibanez I won on EBay (destined to arrive on Monday). If you can wait a week or two, I can side-by-side these three pickups and give you my opinion. Right now I can say that the ceramic Warpig is awesome, but the Miracle Man is definitely more versatile...and I'm expecting more versatility with the Holy Diver.

TwilightOdyssey · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2007, 01:27:27 PM »

I think the tossup here is between the Miracle Man and the Cold Sweat. The Cold Sweat is more dynamic, and a bit more vintage sounding (to my ears): perfect for old Mercyful Fate, Defenders era Priest, and old Maiden. The Miracle Man will get you a more late 80s metal sound, especially through a Marshall or modded Marshall.

TwilightOdyssey · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2007, 01:46:58 PM »

Here is a quick video clip shot @ my gig last night.

Both guitars are using a Cold Sweat pup in the bridge. The video quality is pants, but the sound is very clean.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=aHlRSU5FNkdveE41VEE9PQ

Crazy_Joe · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2007, 05:11:46 PM »

Holy Diver for classic 80's, for a more scooped old school tone i say Miracle Man for a less powerful Miracle Man go for Cold Sweat if that makes any sense.

From the bands you have mentioned i would go for a Holy Diver.

TwilightOdyssey · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2007, 08:15:33 PM »

Quote from: Crazy_Joe

Holy Diver for classic 80's, for a more scooped old school tone i say Miracle Man for a less powerful Miracle Man go for Cold Sweat if that makes any sense.

From the bands you have mentioned i would go for a Holy Diver.

What are you basing that opinion on?

Crazy_Joe · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2007, 09:32:50 PM »

On Tim's advice.

TonyGibson · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2007, 10:57:26 PM »

Based on the wood type in the guitar (alder body, maple neck, ebony fingerboard) I would say that the Cold Sweat or Miracle Man may have the potential to be too bright.

That and the fact that he wants to ability to go "clean to metal", I'll say the Holy Diver. Ceramics historically just don't clean up as well as Alnico, and the Holy Diver sounds great clean and distorted from what I can tell by Antag's clips.

Regardless, I would ask Tim. He's responded to every one of my pickup inquiries.

TwilightOdyssey · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2007, 01:51:17 AM »

^ TonyGibson, that sounds like a sound way to go about it, but I beg to differ on the Cold Sweat's ability to play clean. I get a great clean tone out of mine. The Miracle Man requires an extremely clean amp to play dead clean, but it can still be done. Of the two, I prefer the clean tone on the CS to the MM, however. Just like getting sick drive out of a VHII is possible, if you work for it, the same is true with respects to the CS and MM.

While I think that asking Tim for a guideline is all well and good, ultimately you're still betting that one man's opinion will fit your sonic descriptions. I know, for my taste, I prefer a much brighter sound than Tim does. I use the Cold Sweat in a guitar that Tim was very iffy on. It sounds fantastic.

I would contrast this by saying that I find the Holy Diver to be too rolled off in the high freqs for my taste, but I've used the pup extensively, both live and on recordings using my own rig, and have a good grasp on what styles of metal I think it would work with.

When push comes to shove, I'm only stating my opinion, but it's backed by countless hours of playing BKs. It's far from an uninformed opinion, or garnered soley from an email that Tim sent me.

The catch-all just ask Tim discredits a lot of people on this forum that have a very deep understanding of BKs and what they are capable of.

TonyGibson · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2007, 06:04:46 AM »

Quote from: TwilightOdyssey

The catch-all just ask Tim discredits a lot of people on this forum that have a very deep understanding of BKs and what they are capable of.

Wasn't my intent. What I should have stated is that Tim is probably the guy who's going to wind the pickup as well. Once you explain to him exactly what you want, he will wind the pickup in a way that closely mirrors what you're requesting. These aren't "stock" pickups anyway you slice it. That being the case, he has a HUGE part in what the pickup is going to sound like and his opinion holds a great deal of weight.

No attempt was made here to discredit those who actually use this stuff in the real world. Those opinions matter quite a bit...but not quite as much as the guy who actually hand builds these things. Case in point:

1) Tony wants a Warpig set
2) Tony does not want a "stock" Warpig in neck
3) Tony tells Tim precisely want he wants to hear in a neck pickup and gets his Warpig wound to that description

To be fair I have zero experience with the CS bridge or HD bridge (yet)....I do have the CS neck though and it does cleanup great.

TwilightOdyssey · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2007, 02:45:29 PM »

I get you, Tony. I'm not trying to kick up dust. I've just noticed a trend on this forum in particular in which people pass comment on pickups they've never tried, based off of an email or PM. It's not the same thing, in my opinion, by a long shot.

There is also a misconception that Tim is personally winding the pickups he recommends. This is a business, and while I'm sure Tim winds his fair share of pups, a lot of the actual work is put onto a work order and made by someone else interpreting what Tim has written down.

I've never seen a penchant as strong as the one on this forum to disregard the experience of players. There's little point in someone like myeslf, antag, PhilKing, 38thBeatle, JohnnyMac, and others to even bother passing along our experience if it's always superceded by Just ask Tim, he'll set you right.

TonyGibson · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2007, 03:01:51 PM »

Quote from: TwilightOdyssey

I've never seen a penchant as strong as the one on this forum to disregard the experience of players. There's little point in someone like myeslf, antag, PhilKing, 38thBeatle, JohnnyMac, and others to even bother passing along our experience if it's always superceded by Just ask Tim, he'll set you right.

I feel you, and I listened to TONS of clips before picking out my last set (the Holy Divers based on Antag's clips).

Also, I really dig the video clip you uploaded in this thread...at one point I was considered putting a CS bridge in the my LP (it's currently an MM bridge and CS neck)...that clips just further convinces me that I may want to do that (or just have an excuse to buy another guitar and put a Cold Sweat set in. ;) )

You and I are definitely on the same page. To me real world"experience means more to me than any amount of technical "facts" based on magnet types, DC resistance, etc. The fact that you and many other players are actually using this stuff in the real world and taking the time to upload clips is a big reason why I come to this forum and ask questions here as opposed to just bombarding Tim with emails.

Again, I would like to see a change in what you stated (disregarding the experience of players) as this does undermine what this forum is for.

TwilightOdyssey · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2007, 04:07:56 PM »

Quote from: TonyGibson

I really dig the video clip you uploaded in this thread...at one point I was considered putting a CS bridge in the my LP (it's currently an MM bridge and CS neck)...that clips just further convinces me that I may want to do that (or just have an excuse to buy another guitar and put a Cold Sweat set in. ;) )

LOL ... Yeah, the dual Cold Sweat assault we have going on at the moment is just sick!