Author Topic: Fender Deluxe Reverb advice (Read 10454 times)

timski · « **on:** August 20, 2007, 10:28:41 PM »

Hi,
I have a silverface (late 70s) FDR which sounds great, but I would like to give it more clean headroom and, if possibe, a slightly better bass and high-end response.
I know it is never going to sound like my silverface Twin (and I would never want it to) but a small step in that direction is what I am after.

I am thinking that changing the speaker (currently a reissue Jensen P12R) may be the first thing that's needed, and then possibly changing the tubes.
Can anyone recommend an appropriate speaker (alnico? ceramic? what wattage?) and particular types of tubes?

If it helps I play a strat or 335-type guitar (both with lowish-output, vintage-style pickups) mainly along the jazz/fusion/funk/blues line.

Finally, has anyone tried converting the 'normal' channel of this amp into a tweed-style circuit, but with one of the controls acting as a master vol (i.e vol, tone, master)? Any comments on this idea? Is it possible? Would it sound any good?

Thanks

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2007, 11:54:40 PM »

Converting the normal channel to tweed-specs would give you LESS headroom, but a great raunchy tone leaning towards that midrangey Marshall type of tone.

For more clean headroom...

* make sure the filter caps are in good shape (it's an old amp afterall)
* what preamp valves does it have? (many Fenders use a 12AT7 in both the first preamp slot and the phase inverter - 12AX7s will kill your headroom)
* higher wattage ceramic-magnet speaker (EV or JBL)
* Use some decent 6V6s with good headroom (like the JJ ones) and bias on the cooler side. You may even get away with some 6L6s, but get your tech to monitor the heater voltage - if it sags too much it's a sign your PT won't deliver the extra current the 6L6's are asking from it.

:twisted:

timski · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2007, 09:04:44 AM »

Thanks for that.

Is it possible to go for a tweed set-up on the normal channel, and a 'more headroom' set-up on the vibrato channel, or is a case of one or the other?
Obviously both channels will be going through the same speaker and tubes so I suspect the latter.
And any feelings on the reissue Jensen C-series speakers?

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2007, 11:27:06 AM »

You can change the normal channel to have less headroom (tweed style), but anything you do to the output stage to increase headroom will affect both channels.

I think you can have your cake and eat it on this occasion - the tweed mods on the normal channel are very popular.

I have no experience with Jensons, I do know that most people seem to rate Webers over them though (for 'that' type of tone)

:twisted:

Jp. · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2007, 11:57:14 AM »

As soon as I saw this thread title I though "this sounds like a job for HTH" and loe and behold I open the thread and there he is. LOL

I havent seen anything from you in the Mashall modding arena for a while mate.....

timski · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2007, 12:24:02 PM »

Thanks again HTH.

Have googled for some info on tweed mods but nothing really came up.
Any links you could supply or is it something that most decent techs should know about?

And one other question, and please excuse my ignorance:
Does a higher power-handling speaker necessarily = more clean headroom? And does it affect bass response in any way?

Ta

timski · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2007, 01:09:42 PM »

Sorry to harp on, but another question:

Has anyone tried modifying the normal channel of DR to be like the 'lead' channel of a Boogie Mk1?
Any idea if this is possible?
And could it be done without affecting the vibrato channel too much?

I might try some of the other forums but you guys seem so nice I thought I'd ask here first!

jpfamps · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2007, 01:24:35 PM »

In Fender blackface and silverface amps the pre-amp really doesn't distort much, so you really need to look at the power stage regarding headroom issues.

I would get your amp working correctly before undertaking any modification. If your filter caps are originals, get them changed. Trying some JJ 6V6s is also a good idea, as is checking that you have a 12AT7 in the PI.

I'm not a big fan of the Jensen reissue speakers (and believe me I've see lots of amps with them in). They all seem to sound fairly harsh, and are not cheap either. As a general rule Alnico speakers have less head room than ceramic speakers, so I would definitely look to replace the speaker in your amp. Weber make excellent speakers, however you would need to import one from the US. Banzai Effects in Germany sell Weber speakers, but at highway robbery prices. I really don't know how you can justify charging 135 euro for a $30 speaker.

If you did go with Weber, I would recommend a 12F150, although it would be worth contacting Ted Weber for advice on this as he is always very helpful.

I have had good results with Eminence speakers in the past, although their current range is rather bewildering, and I am at a loss to recommend anything from their current range. Bear in mind that lower power speakers are generally more efficient due that higher powered speakers.

Silverface Deluxe Reverbs are one of the most desirable Silverface models, so think twice before you undertake any mods to your amp, and make sure that they are reversible and well executed. I have seen some horrific hack jobs. Don't pay someone to do this to your amp.

Hope that this is helpful.

timski · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2007, 01:51:38 PM »

Thanks for that.

A few years ago the amp was thoroughly serviced, a lot of components being replaced, and had new tubes installed by the guy who owns HotRox valves (I lived nearby at the time).

The amp has not been used much since then as I have been somewhat out of action due to work and family commitments, but I'm now getting to use it again, so the tubes are hopefully not too knackered.

If I get the deluxe the way I want I intend to keep the amp forever as I love its size, output, tone and general vibe so I'm not too concerned about losing value on it no longer being original.

I love the sound of my strat through my Twin but that amp is way to loud and WAY to heavy and I know will never do the whole 'edge-of-breakup' thing that my deluxe can so, if I can make my deluxe a little cleaner, and ideally improve its bass response and get some of that ultra-sheen glassiness you get from a Twin I would be a happy man.

The other option I'm looking at is trying to get hold of a SF Vibrolux Reverb, but I've never played through one so don't know how it would compare with the deluxe, although know it is a little louder and is 2x10 rather than 1x12 so is likely to be more midrangey, and less bassy (am I correct? Please educate me if not!)

The tweed/Boogie Mk1 ideas are just because the normal chanel is completely unused, and it would be nice to have some dirtier tones on tap.

Elliot · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2007, 02:10:28 PM »

If you want a good Jensen C12N clone that approximates the Fender speakers of yore - and don't want to spend on Weber and their high shipping costs get an Eminence Red, White and Blue.

If you want a speaker with a similar tone but slightly more growl go for an Eminence Texas Heat.

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2007, 03:08:40 PM »

Quote from: Jp.

As soon as I saw this thread title I though "this sounds like a job for HTH" and loe and behold I open the thread and there he is. LOL

I havent seen anything from you in the Mashall modding arena for a while mate.....

Heh, I always try my best to help as there are so many hack-techs around and I hate to see people get ripped off for shoddy (or needless) work.

(to the original poster)... You ain't got much to work with only having two gain stages (one ECC83) available but you'll easily be able to have more gain, that's not a problem. You're loosing lots of gain through the tonestack, so you could lift the ground connection on the 6k8 resistor in the normal channel tonestack for a quick and dirty mod for more gain.

:twisted:

jpfamps · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2007, 03:29:42 PM »

I would check if the filter caps have been replaced. By the way filter caps deteriorate if the amp is not used.

In theory a 12" speaker can achieve lower frequencies than a 10" speaker. In practice the bass extension of most 10" speakers is more than adequate for guitar use as the lowest frequency on a standard tuned guitar is around 80 Hz. Also many successful bass amps use 10" speakers. A 2 x 10" amp will have a larger surface area of cone than a 1 x 12, so as long as the speakers can handle the bass frequencies 2 x 10 can deliver more bass energy than 1 x 12.

The Vibrolux Reverb is a fantastic amp. It has more head room than a Deluxe Reverb, but still breaks up a sensible volume, and is very portable. I have played some stunning examples. On the down side they are probably the most desirable Silverface amp and this is reflected in the price (Blackface Vibrolux Reverbs are v–e–rrrrry pricy. Expect to pay north of £1700 for a straight example). A cheaper option would be a Pro Reverb, which is a very similar amp to the Vibrolux, but with a 2 x 12 speaker configuration. This is more unweildy than a Vibrolux, but are around half the price. Make sure you get a 45 W Pro and not the later 70 W model.

timski · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2007, 03:51:51 PM »

Yeah, I've played through a non-master SF Pro quite a lot - the singer in my band has one.
Whilst I love the sound it's nearly the same size and weight as my Twin which makes it less of an attraction for me. Plus it's still a little too loud.

jpfamps · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2007, 05:02:45 PM »

Yes the Pro is a little unweildy.

I have a 1969 Pro which is a smaller box version and it makes it slightly more manageable.

Your best bet might well be the Vibrolux. Alternatively you can always mike up your Deluxe.

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2007, 09:58:53 PM »

I've always wondered why the Pro Reverb wasn't a more popular amp since it's basically half a Twin.

I do like Deluxe Reverbs though, great tone at sensible volumes - 6V6s sound GREAT overdriven.

:twisted: