Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: tekbow on September 07, 2013, 01:43:07 AM
-
I mean more than the tenuous grip it sometimes has..
On the subject of a new british company Vonhatski amps 2 flagship heads (MIUK) at 100w and 50w, they say:
"However, for serious amateurs, semi pros and professional players who want an affordable all valve circuit with dual rectifier flexibility....."
Affordable? for serious amateurs and semi pros? these amps cost near on £1900 and £1700 respectively.
No harm, I know mojo exists everywhere and people pay to get "tonez", but I don't think anyone has ever pretended that the better part of £2k is affordable. I mentioned in another thread that the price of stuff is what the price of is and thats fine, and that someone shouldn't be "demeaned" by having PRS SE, for example, on the headstock of a guitar. but to say what they have said about that kind of money is a little demeaning..
Yes buy what makes you happy, spend as much as you want, but i think the above is a bit of a departure from reality.
This company also has a full page ad in the current issue. And i don't like the new Guitarist format either... they seem to be sticking a couple of high end reviews right at the front of the mag now, the gear featured in them being advertised in a full pager later in the same issue.
-
I'd say that in addition to the knobs that they installed on these amps they installed a few more in their publicity and advertising departments! Affordable for who? Serious how? Seems to me this is not intended for your average gigging guitarist, although I'm sure they'll hand out of few freebies to endorsees as part of their campaign to suck in the average big head who likes to flash around his fancy car, girlfriend young enough to be his daughter, leather trousers he probably should have stopped wearing ten years ago, and home recording studio that is only used for a pub band at best (a friend of mine plays with just such a guy). If you take that into consideration, yes there is quite a market for such things :D
-
you might not like it but they really can say whatever they want and charge whatever they want.
-
No you're right, they can say what they want, and i certainly have no issue with what the company is charging. I and a lot of other guys here have/have had amps that pricey (or not so much if you buy em second hand). What I'm commenting on is that calling £1700 - £1900 "affordable" is a bit ludicrous. No serious amateur or semi pro that i know, and i know a couple, would consider that to be affordable. most of them are playing Hot Rod Deluxes. At the very least those kind of prices are "upper midrange" and there are quite a few boutique amps can be had for that kind of money
the mad thing is, and i just looked to check, the construction is PCB (and not, by the sounds of it, the multi board type affairs used on Soldanos etc), a single PCB, and the review is actually distinctly average. the tone of the conclusion is basically "yeah they're alright".
So, Guitarist considers £1900 quid to be affordable to an ethusiastic amateur/semi pro for an "alright" amp?
This is my point. the amp company aside (its up to them what they charge), Guitarist can say what they like, but what they're saying is barking.
-
There is nothing wrong with PCB's as long as its done right, even single PCB. The SLO PCB's aren't high end and neither is their layout faultless but they do have other benefits.
These amps look a bit SLO'ish in layout, which is fine, but it always makes me think the amp is going to be SLO based. Adding a dual eq, fancy FX loops, a few tweaks and switchable rectifiers to an SLO type thing isn't anything new. The reverb is possibly a nice touch. It's a bit like it's aiming for a bit of the mesa market or maybe what Cornford has left as a gap, a new Dual Rec is what... £2000? I see a lot of dual rec's around but probably not played by people who bought them new. It would be nice to see a shot of the guts.
You can get other boutique amps from overseas for less money but not with as many features. In fact, for what this amp has, I'd be suspicious of just how much of it is put together in the UK.
-
I only mentioned Soldano as an example of PCB layout done right, and yep i agree, there's nothing wrong with PCB amps if done correctly.
But an SLO (as you know yourself) has chassis mounted pots and tube sockets, for example, that are jumpered to the board. This, from the description, doesn't seem too. But you raise an interesting point for the features, things like an Soldano or Conford are amps that are deceptively versatile. Feature light but "tone heavy". and built to a very high and durable standard. Excepting the dual rec in it though, Marshalls can also have a lot of features, and, starting with the JVM range i believe, be built in the UK for much less money than that?
From the review they're saying fender blackface-ish.
as i said, my comments isn't at the directed at, or is a criticism of the amp. It's purely aimed at guitarist calling an amp in that price range affordable.
-
When you compare it to a dumble it's extremely affordable.
-
One man's expensive is another man's affordable, we could debate that forever.
There's the old argument about how relatively cheap guitars and amps are compared with, say, a halfway decent violin at the same semi-pro to pro level.
Or you could just compare the cost of those amps with "normal", but non-essential, things the average person spends money on every year, like holidays, designer clothes, cars...... or those old chestnuts, cigs and booze.
But getting back to Guitarist magazine (and guitar magazines in general), my biggest gripe with their reviews is how lazy they are. They don't go into sufficient detail, they tend to gloss over quality-control flaws (even though the particular item they've been sent for review was probably the "pick of the bunch") and they never give anything an overall negative review.
-
Of course, the irony is that £2k may not be affordable to a someone who really is struggling to make it as a semi-pro to lower-end professional musician, but it may very well be affordable to an enthusiastic amateur with a day job. But that's life.
-
fair point, a "serious amateur" as they put it, may have a lot more disposable cash.
-
Of course, the irony is that £2k may not be affordable to a someone who really is struggling to make it as a semi-pro to lower-end professional musician, but it may very well be affordable to an enthusiastic amateur with a day job. But that's life.
Exactly!
-
Well I read the builders 'about' section and it claims those amps are hand made in the UK. I wouldn't call Marshall's 'Hand made', although some are. Things like the JVM are line built with machine populated boards, though granted some assembly always has to be done by hand. Marshall being a larger company (probably!) would have more buying power to stock larger numbers of components which would reduce the cost of each unit produced. This company also claim to use high quality parts, which I would expect cost more that what other companies might use, but that may just be marketing nonsense. We also have that old "don't price your amp too low or people will assume its rubbish" kind of thing going on I imagine. In comparison again with Soldano, their PCB's are hand populated and the SLO100 PCB's themselves are made in-house I believe. Even if this new amp is all PCB mounted it's still a lot of work to do 'by hand' which I would have thought would increase the expense.
It would be interesting to see inside one still. I imagine it'll be nothing out of the ordinary.
Interesting what you say about Feature Heavy amps. I didn't like my Decatone and I sold a Dual Rec after a short tour with it. Everyone I know who runs a Dual Rec has one tone that they use. They don't switch between all the channels, or the loop, and they never use the valve rectifier. I guess the DR is versatile but really is known for a few core tones and once people find that in an amp, they don't tend to channel hop and make use of everything an amp can do. I think other feature heavy amps suffer the same thing. A lot of times when I watch rig rundowns or see bands, people use multiple amps rather than big multi channel ones. I kind of think the more features you add to an amp and the more versatile you try to make it, the more you actually end up making the best tones harder to find and that defining character for that amp or builder gets lost somewhere.
I agree. £1900 isn't exactly "affordable" but then a Splawn is considered to be an affordable boutique amp. I was just browsing GAK and the cost of amps now (I haven't looked for a while!) seems crazy!
Engl Invader 150 £1779
EVH 5150 III £1511
Laney GH100L £849 (this kind of surprised me)
JVM 410H £1077
Mesa Stilletto Deuce £2199
Dual Rec Reborn £2099
Orange TV200H Thunderverb £1717
Orange Rocker 100 with Divo £1564
Peavey 6505/6534 £1159
The marshall actually looks like some kind of bargain?? Why did they reissue the 4100 at £800!! urgh. I'm glad I've been trading up over the years because NON of these amps seem affordable now!
-
^ Yep, there are differences in how marshal do it, Soldano do it, and how these guys do it, but if we're talking an "affordable" all tube head with features then a marshall, build methods aside, is much more affordable. I think its from the JVM line up that are uk made, the DSL's and TSL's are now made in vietnam i believe. Even cornford have a PCB range (possibly chinese?) which get good write ups for way less money.
Soldanos are hand populated and all is done in house as you say, they're also built by one person in terms of assembly and wiring from start to finish i believe (maybe some other bloke mounts it in a head shell and some else covers it).
Decatone never appealed to me either, the only trade i would make these days would be up to an SLO, or across to an HR25. and they are really simple amps (from a control point of view). They;re actually what turned me on to the "stripped down thing" and there's amps out there that are even more so.
Had a marshall 6100 years ago, liked at the time, but can't see me going back that direction with any company.
The article made me sit up and take notice of new amp prices too, i was suprised to say the least.
The Laney is a suprise, but a welcome one. they still UK made?
I also can't believe they charge that for a 6505 when you can have a used US made 5150 for half the price.
-
Similar thing with my other hobby, cycling. Apparently a ~£3k new mountain bike (which may still need a few things changing) is considered good value for money these days, it's bloody mental. I can get a much better specced bike with my choice of new/2nd hand parts for under a grand!
-
Yep, Guitarist is shitee and has been for eons. It sustains my interest for about the duration of a bowel movement, assuming I didn't have a curry the night before.
RE the amps - the advert with the Steve Coogan 'Keanu Reeves' characters was all I needed to dismiss them.
-
I often find what's billed as 'affordable' is a long way from being affordable to me and I'm on a decent salary so there can't be that many people who find it affordable. Surely 'affordable' is what the majority can afford but that certainly isn't the case here. I have a normal full-time job and I play gigs in a covers band in my spare time so I suppose I qualify as a 'serious amateur' but there's no way at all I'd fork out that kind of money.
1) I couldn't afford it.
2) Playing a few gigs a month in a pub doesn't justify such huge expense.
3) You simply don't need anything that powerful. I use a 60w amp but that's only because it happened to have the features I wanted. I could happily use a Peavey Classic 30 and still have loads of volume or even a 20w would probably do.
To spend around £2000 on an amp I'd have to be what I'd describe as a 'serious semi-pro'.
-
From the Guitarist review:
'Our only real niggle concerns the control knobs, which have a small dimple position indicator that's hard to see in normal light.'
This annoys the hell out of me. So many companies claim to have developed their products with the working guitarist in mind and they do something like this. Just plain stupid and thoughtless and makes me wonder what else they've got wrong.
From the Vonhatski website:
'Can I put different types of valves in my pre amp to alter the tone or volume?
We recommend when replacing the pre amp valves they are replaced with the same type and model, if you use a different type or model this can and will cause damage to the amp. All work of this nature must be carried out by a qualified service engineer.'
So using different types of pre-amp valves WILL damage the amp ? Ridiculous, we all love trying different valves. What kind of design is it that means different pre-amp valves will damage the amp ? And a qualified service engineer to change the pre-amp valves ? What kind of cr@p is this ? Do you hire a qualified electrician to change your light bulbs ? Despite their claims for unprecedented levels of support I get the impression that if you touch the amp in any way (don't even point) and it develops a problem they will say it's your fault.
Count me out.
-
Hey, just want to say guys, it was not my intention to hate these guys out. If they're positioning themselves as a highend/boutique builder, thats cool, and people will probably pay, but i know where my £2k on an amp (hypothetical) will go and it won't be to them.
My only issue was how Guitarist described the price point of an amp who's review wasn't anything spectacular.
-
Haven't read the review, nor heard of the amp in question, so bear that in mind :lol:
But getting back to Guitarist magazine (and guitar magazines in general), my biggest gripe with their reviews is how lazy they are. They don't go into sufficient detail, they tend to gloss over quality-control flaws (even though the particular item they've been sent for review was probably the "pick of the bunch") and they never give anything an overall negative review.
+1
Of course, the irony is that £2k may not be affordable to a someone who really is struggling to make it as a semi-pro to lower-end professional musician, but it may very well be affordable to an enthusiastic amateur with a day job. But that's life.
Also +1
I suppose you could say that, if it's comparatively cheap (i.e. compared to other amps with similar features and made in a similar part of the world), then what they're saying is fair enough. But yeah £2k is pretty expensive in most people's books.
-
But getting back to Guitarist magazine (and guitar magazines in general), my biggest gripe with their reviews is how lazy they are. They don't go into sufficient detail, they tend to gloss over quality-control flaws (even though the particular item they've been sent for review was probably the "pick of the bunch") and they never give anything an overall negative review.
Yes, I'd like to agree with this too. It seems to me that nothing ever gets a negative review regardless of how poor they can be and 'Guitarist Choice' awards seem to be handed out for almost anything. It's not an award I see as prestigious in any way and not an award I take the slightest notice of anymore. The trouble is they can't seriously criticise a product otherwise they'd lose the advertising revenue so as objective reviews they become utterly worthless. I have a look at some of the reviews but if a product interests me, I'll tend to ask other users online before I made any purchase. I'd certainly never buy anything based on a review in a magazine and it's not just Guitarist magazine that suffers from this issue.
-
Whilst I agree with pretty much all of the points raised I often wonder what the Guitarist team get sent to review and then choose not to include it in an issue. For instance if they were sent something really not of good standard would they talk to the manufacturer and effectively let them save face before a poor review gets included?
I'm not sure of the intricacies of journalism but imagine that the manufacturer pays for products to get reviewed and ultimately has some say in the wording in the review. Could be naive of me of course.
-
I'm not sure of the intricacies of journalism but imagine that the manufacturer pays for products to get reviewed and ultimately has some say in the wording in the review. Could be naive of me of course.
Interesting point. I doubt they actually pay to be reviewed, surely then any question of an unbiased review would go out of the window? On the other hand, I assume the manufacturers offer products for review, and nothing is ever being reviewed without the manufacturers' prior knowledge.
I also doubt the manufacturers have any editorial control, but I imagine there are some "discussions" before the review goes to print. Especially if there is some problem or defect with the product, you'd probably want to give the manufacturer a chance to respond. And in that case, maybe some of those issues never make it to the printed review.
Having said that, I've read many reviews which do refer to a flaw and say something like "the manufacturer has assured us that the problem has now been sorted out and won't appear on the samples you'll see in the shops".
-
Whilst I agree with pretty much all of the points raised I often wonder what the Guitarist team get sent to review and then choose not to include it in an issue. For instance if they were sent something really not of good standard would they talk to the manufacturer and effectively let them save face before a poor review gets included?
I'm not sure of the intricacies of journalism but imagine that the manufacturer pays for products to get reviewed and ultimately has some say in the wording in the review. Could be naive of me of course.
I had a chat with one of the head honchos from SOS magazine a few years ago and brought that up. He said that if they get a defective or otherwise not up to par bit of kit they do make the supplier aware and offer it back for them to send another example in for review.
-
Interesting point. I doubt they actually pay to be reviewed, surely then any question of an unbiased review would go out of the window? On the other hand, I assume the manufacturers offer products for review, and nothing is ever being reviewed without the manufacturers' prior knowledge.
I also doubt the manufacturers have any editorial control, but I imagine there are some "discussions" before the review goes to print.
Agreed Philly - "pay" was a poor choice of word I think. I do wonder what Jonathan's view and experience is on this subject - I'm sure I remember some of his Feline models getting reviewed.
-
While I've never seen any of felines guitars reviewed, I have seen them get good mention in, think it was, Guitar buyer or Guitar and Bass magazine. one of them has a monthly article on private collections every month. This was in last months or the month befores issue.
-
You're mostly correct, Philly. If there's a problem with the gear they offer it to be returned for another example as I said earlier. If the offer is declined (never is) then it goes to print with warts. The companies have no editorial control but there certainly is alot of polotics involved as the revenue from the advertisments is massive.
I've thought for a while about how cool it would be to do a Guitar magazine that was down to earth, filled with interviews and reviews of products that people were actually interested in and could call a spade a spade. But I guess advert revenue is the reason it's not done.
Guitarist is really out of touch, seems like it's being run by a member of TGP.
-
Guitarist is really out of touch, seems like it's being run by a member of TGP.
:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK4I-NmeXS4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK4I-NmeXS4)
-
:lol:
I've thought for a while about how cool it would be to do a Guitar magazine that was down to earth, filled with interviews and reviews of products that people were actually interested in and could call a spade a spade. But I guess advert revenue is the reason it's not done.
Yeah it's very hard (if not impossible) to compete playing fair if no-one else is...
-
I'm sure most of us have, by now, remapped Guitarist's reviews in our own minds:
*** = pretty rotten, they never give anything less than *** so that's as bad as something can be.
**** = OK, decent enough
***** = Ranges from "really quite decent" to "the greatest thing to tickle ears since Leo Fender said 'I wonder what would happen if I bolted these two planks together a walloped a pickup in one of them?'"
Trouble is, because Guitarist now effectively only have one three grading levels, none of them are very useful other than ***, which I take mean "probably avoid".
It's also true that the overall quality of gear has improved vastly over the twenty odd years I've been playing so perhaps there actually aren't many really shocking pieces of kit out there any more and perhaps that too has something to do with it as well as advertiser pressure?
-
It's also true that the overall quality of gear has improved vastly over the twenty odd years I've been playing so perhaps there actually aren't many really shocking pieces of kit out there any more and perhaps that too has something to do with it as well as advertiser pressure?
I think that's a fair point. And if you go back another 10 years before that, some gear really was rubbish, which is pretty much never the case now.
Star ratings and marks out of ten in reviews are always problematic - do you make 5/10 the base line and go up or down from there (which seems a bit harsh, at least when you see it in print), or do you start from the idea that most things are (in some vague way) deserving of at least a 6 or 7 because they're basically pretty good, and only truly exceptional cases will get more or less?
I tend to ignore the stars and just think about what the text (and photos) tell me.
-
The way we put the 10 point rating when doing poetry slams went like this just about (applied to gear here): 1 point....this should not have been build
5 points: This is decent, works, but nothing special
10 points: this thing musta been build by angels somewhere!
Add a gradual curve in there, be honest and reserve the 9s and 10s for the truely exeptional stuff to keep being credible and then effectivly have most things end up in the 6-8 category, at least one can hope.
If this is done well it should give a nice indication.
The point about shite gear is valid though, the general quality is so much better these days.
Also one needs to see how on has the point system react to the different price categorys. Comparing a cheap transistor amp with a high end valve one in terms of points is nearly impossible. If you were to compare them properly you would probably have the transistor end up being like a 2-3, even if it does sound amazing for its price.
-
Very few pieces of kit are going to get less than 3 for a variety of reasons.
1 anyone sending kit in for review is going to make sure it's well prepared as you are unlikely to want to get a bad review
2 anything they get that is substandard - they are surely going to contact the company out of decency and fostering good relations within the UK marketplace.
3 Advertising revenue is naturally important and reviews/adverts don't go necessarily hand in glove as in one can't exist without the other, but neither do they wish to stymy themselves for future advertising potential.
The UK industry is small and you could get the head honchos from every distributor, manufacturer or maker together in a good size pub. These people tend to know each other to some degree, and if a magazine got a reputation for scathing reviews (warranted or not) it could be a short lived career path.
I feel that there is generally honesty in reviews in spite of some of the reviewers having pretty close relationships with the big 5 (Fender, Gibson, PRS, Taylor , Martin)
Sometimes the formula of having to find some negative point to offer balance on an otherwise glowing review amuses as they can find odd things to criticise.
Mags don't expect to keep anything they review in my experience, although that was what Chappers offered in exchange for a video review, hence I didn't go for that.
I would like to get some Guitarist reviews of my stuff and from Guitar and Bass Magazine - my previous reviews were with Guitar Buyer Mag. Hopefully they will accept them for a review.
-
Mags don't expect to keep anything they review in my experience, although that was what Chappers offered in exchange for a video review, hence I didn't go for that.
That's done nothing to change my opinion of him....
But your comment reminded me, one of the more interesting things Guitarist have done in recent years is the "Long Termers" section, where the staff keep things for an extended period and use them in real-life situations for recording, gigging etc before deciding if they really are "keepers". That is a good idea, and not something I've seen in the other magazines I read.
-
This is an interesting thread and many good points.
I wouldnt says its affordable to the majority of guitar players, but it is in line with many of its competitors and boutique amp manufacturers. In fact compared to some brands boutique brands it is cheaper. However, if a particular piece of gear is £2k and its really good then I think nowadays more and more people are splashing out on boutique gear for something that is special.
I find it strange forum threads often say why spend so much on an amp, in particularly a bedroom amp, but the amp is the biggest thing to affect tone. Why not spend that much if its good and you can afford it or save for it. Guitarists dont often question spending lots on guitars. Guitar prices are getting out of hand now CS Gibsons £3-7k, PRS £2.5-12k, etc etc. Even spending upto £1k on a guitar and having lots of guitars for variety is common now, but one killer amp is hard to justify??
Regarding the Rating system. I agree its rubbish. Its nigh on impossible to really understand how good something is that is being reviewed with only 5 stars. They should use 10/10 or % like other mags. They also should rate it as a stand alone guitar but also within a price band. E.g it might get 3/5 compared to a guitar which gets 5/5 but that guitar might cost 5x the price but for a guitar in that price bracket its amazing. that isnt easy to get from the reviews.
I also dont think the videos are great. They had the excuse before when it all had to fit on the disk now its online they should have extended videos and more variety of tones and playing styles in the demos. I find the magazine doesnt go into detail and add much value over the reviews and comments on the net. They need to have more opinions and do lengthy demos to add value.
I should mention i do subscribe to Guitarist but my major gripe is the fact that some reviews of gear become available online on Music Radar at the same time i get the magazine delivered!! WTF? i am partially tempted to cut my subscription and see the reviews as they trickle onto Music Radar.
-
Good points!
I don't think we're saying "why spend so much on an amp" though, unless it's a point you're raising having read other threads with those kind of feelings?
Thread has evolved nicely i must say though.
-
I should mention i do subscribe to Guitarist but my major gripe is the fact that some reviews of gear become available online on Music Radar at the same time i get the magazine delivered!! WTF? i am partially tempted to cut my subscription and see the reviews as they trickle onto Music Radar.
I only occasionally look on Music Radar, but I get the impression the reviews are only shortened versions of the reviews in Guitarist? Your point's still a good one, though.
I must admit, I can't warm to the idea of online magazines - I like going through a paper magazine because I'll find myself reading stuff that wouldn't have sounded interesting if it was just a link at the side of a webpage. I guess I'll have to get used to it though, I suspect printed magazines will die out in the next few years (possibly just before I completely run out of space in my flat....)
-
But your comment reminded me, one of the more interesting things Guitarist have done in recent years is the "Long Termers" section, where the staff keep things for an extended period and use them in real-life situations for recording, gigging etc before deciding if they really are "keepers". That is a good idea, and not something I've seen in the other magazines I read.
Really agree with that, I think it's a great feature. It's quite illuminating seeing them go through the honeymoon phase and, often, out the other side. I always wonder how much time a reviewer gets to spend with a piece of gear under regular review circumstances? My guess is not much and that must be reflected in the reviews. Things that ultimately really annoy you about a product often take some time to fully manifest themselves.
-
Guitarist is really out of touch, seems like it's being run by a member of TGP.
:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK4I-NmeXS4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK4I-NmeXS4)
lol thanks for that. I did used to post there so I'm familiar with Tag :lol: this one is funny too The plight of the guitar salesman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqc42nVT2VA#)
-
lol hadn't seen that one, I feel sorry for sales guys, but then again, i feel sorry for customers sometimes too..
Was on guitar guitars site a couple days ago and saw they had some vemuram jan rays in stock.. for ridiculous prices as expected. Do those guys not keep tabs on what the latest holy grail/flameout is?
saying that, probably the majority of the guitar buying public don't know, will be a bad day for the guy who walks in and buy it. although maybe the majority of the guitar buying public wouldn't buy a pedal when they could buy a guitar for the same money lol
-
Was on guitar guitars site a couple days ago and saw they had some vemuram jan rays in stock.. for ridiculous prices as expected. Do those guys not keep tabs on what the latest holy grail/flameout is?
saying that, probably the majority of the guitar buying public don't know, will be a bad day for the guy who walks in and buy it. although maybe the majority of the guitar buying public wouldn't buy a pedal when they could buy a guitar for the same money lol
I've never heard of it, but I'd never waste £295 on an emperor's-new-clothes pedal (not when I could waste it on another guitar, or a neck, or something). Presumably there's a story about this pedal I've missed out on....?
-
Ahhh.. the flameout was spectacular.. on par with the freekish blues thing..
and not a million miles from what freekish blues had done either..
Basically Vemuram is a Japanese company, and they released a pedal called the Jan Ray, the latest TGP holy grail "transparent" mojo OD. 5 years of R&D or some such, beautiful polished brass case, this was Gods own OD, not even Jesus would have been allowed to play it.. and the reviews on it (written before it had even been released) were stunning
And when users opened it up, it had been gooped.
You see whats coming next..?
Someone got suspicious and degooped it, it was flagrant and outright Timmy clone, with a couple of minor component values changed (i guess in the same way an 808 differs from a TS).
The thread went on for 30 pages before it was shut down, then another started up that 24 hours later was 15 pages long. People swore blind the pedal they just blew $400+ on didn't sound anything like a Timmy.
"I don't care what you say, I can hear a difference" wrote one TGP newb who drank the koolaid.. meanwhile a lot of "as new" janrays suddenly started appearing on ebay before the general public caught wind.
Guess the goop was mojo sauce.
And i laughed my arse off. TGP for me is much like a canary in a coal mine.
-
"I don't care what you say, I can hear a difference" wrote one TGP newb who drank the koolaid..
:lol:
-
^ yeah the jan ray thing. I feel sorry for the guys who got ripped, but i nearly got an infraction over there for advising caution before it had been reversed... :lol: EDIT: the guy who degooped it is a guy I know well on another forum. he's a good guy, and deserves a lot of credit for spending money to get one when he knew it was gonna be a clone. Not to mention credit for doing the work to reverse it. IIRC it was actually tweaked in a similar way to the freekish- neutered controls to keep it more within mojoville settings :lol:
FWIW there's another super-expensive d-style pedal which is currently being hyped. trolling the thread as we speak :oops:
That's possibly the most annoying thing about it. I'm not saying I'm perfect, I dare say I get caught out once in a while. But when i do, I learn from it and don't do it again. With them over there it's like "Dur I got ripped off with that last pack of magic beans but I have a good feeling about this next pack of them..."
Nomatter how many times this happens, there's always another new holy grail, flavour of the month pedal which'll make you sell all your existing pedals. And which definitely can't be a clone, nosiree, I have golden ears and fingers and they tell me this is a unique circuit.
I'm sure most of us have, by now, remapped Guitarist's reviews in our own minds:
*** = pretty rotten, they never give anything less than *** so that's as bad as something can be.
**** = OK, decent enough
***** = Ranges from "really quite decent" to "the greatest thing to tickle ears since Leo Fender said 'I wonder what would happen if I bolted these two planks together a walloped a pickup in one of them?'"
Trouble is, because Guitarist now effectively only have one three grading levels, none of them are very useful other than ***, which I take mean "probably avoid".
It's also true that the overall quality of gear has improved vastly over the twenty odd years I've been playing so perhaps there actually aren't many really shocking pieces of kit out there any more and perhaps that too has something to do with it as well as advertiser pressure?
I'd say it's even worse than that. In my experience (and bear in mind I haven't read it now for maybe a year), anything 4 stars or better is liable to be great. In fact, many times something which got 4 stars I'd prefer to something which got 5 stars.
I also think the "gear is so much better now" thing is a massive red herring. You rate stuff based on what's currently available, or else what's the point? I'm not buying a guitar in the 1960s, to some 15 year old kid spending the money he's saved up for 3 years to get a guitar it doesn't matter one iota what gear was like in the 1960s, he/she wants the best instrument which is available now for his/her money.
If computer magazines rated computers based on what they were like 20 years ago they'd be a laughing stock (and rightly so).
-
^ yeah the jan ray thing. I feel sorry for the guys who got ripped, but i nearly got an infraction over there for advising caution before it had been reversed... :lol:
FWIW there's another super-expensive d-style pedal which is currently being hyped. trolling the thread as we speak :oops:
oh yeah? what pedal would that be?? lol
-
ah woops I edited my last post as you posted, if anyone is interested :lol: (probably not, it's just a rant :oops: )
here's the link to the thread, it gets good by about page 5
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1275881 (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1275881)
(it's the dumbloid pedal, I think)
EDIT: oh yeah, the guy who says it looks like it was made by a 5-year old is the guy who reversed the jan ray. :lol:
-
Actually it started to get Juicy for me right at post 11. Dumble owner claims his mate who services his ODS knows dumble tone and can make the pedal sound like a dumble.
Tag? are you there?
yep, then post 15.
Pigeons learn faster, i swear to god.
Edit: Yep, you were right Dave, page 5, mojo sauce all over the board. Gona bookmark this one/ Will you stick a comment on my behalf? just say "Jan Ray Much?"
-
I already mentioned the jan ray :lol: I stayed out of it until today, but I couldn't resist any longer.
Also I need to watch myself, I don't want to get an infraction, I can't keep an eye on the lulz if I'm banned :lol:
And LOL yeah posts 11 & 15 are great too. Just the really daft stuff starts about page 5.
-
Wow, this whole mystical/mythical world of pedals is a revelation to me! :o
If I ever decide to stop buying more and more guitars, I sincerely hope I don't start getting pedal GAS.
-
Wow, this whole mystical/mythical world of pedals is a revelation to me! :o
If I ever decide to stop buying more and more guitars, I sincerely hope I don't start getting pedal GAS.
You really don't want it lol i had mine and came thru the other side without spending anything too mental or falling for anything too snake oilish.. to be fair though i got out before it got really bad in the last 2 or 3 years
-
Yeah I was pretty lucky too. I was actually pretty close to getting into the boutique pedal thing and then the freekish thing happened. Good timing. That's why I get so annoyed about it- not because I think I'm awesome to see through it and everyone else is an idiot, but because I was so close to being rooked by it, too.
That's not to say all expensive pedals are clones, of course- but I'll wait until I see a schematic now before buying anything.
-
Not seen these before.
Have rather been off the radar. I wonder who is behind this venture?
Good to see a new British-made amp coming on the market, although I'm not sure what differentiates these from other amps on the market. I'm also not convinced by the styling, but that is my personal preference.
I would agree that around the £1700 is not what I would refer to as "affordable"; with £1700 in your pocket you have a massive choice of amps you could purchase, especially if you look in the second hand market.
It seems that the amp is aimed at the "pro" end of the market. This is a quite a rarified market and I suspect that there are very few amp companies world wide who can survive solely focussing on this end of the market.
I suspect that these may be "flagship" models that precede the appearance of a genuinely "affordable" line of amps.
-
I suspect that these may be "flagship" models that precede the appearance of a genuinely "affordable" line of amps.
good point actually, I would hope then that the more affordable line will still be uk manufactured
-
I came across this search whilst having a look at the Bare Knuckle pickups site and reading various different articles regarding amps and pickups.
I'd just like to ask anyone who has criticized the Vonhatski range if they have actually tried any of the amplifiers???
It really irritates me that people have a very biased opinions against BRITISH companies that don't happen to be brand leaders.
I'd like to state that I currently own one of these boutique amps and it's probably the best built and QC'd amp I've ever had the pleasure of playing. It's also one of the best sounding amps on the market and I've had a lot of different heads and combos through my hands over the years.
I understand that reading an article in a magazine helps us to get an "on paper" idea of how well a piece of equipment is made and how it performs but you wouldn't buy a Porsche unless you've either owned one before or test driven it. You also wouldn't cast judgement without actually trying one out.
On that note, rather than dissecting and disparaging a well-designed, well-built and incredible sounding amp with no actual face-to-face experience with the amp or company, why not go and actually play one (and not just for 5 minutes)!!
Then have this conversation and if the Purelight range aren't for you, only then are your opinions relevant and justifiable.
-
I think everyone is entitled to their opinion.
This includes yours Jayde.. this is a forum so chill out.
-
Magazines are funded in the main by advertising. If the advertisers are not shifting product, then the mag doesn't get paid. It's why I stopped many years ago reading them as you can't trust any publication with such a vested interest in their advertisers products.
The best way to review anything is to try it for yourself... The next best way is from a recommendation by someone who you trust or I would say on a forum that isn't full of shite. Of which many are sadly.
For me when it comes to amps, we've got some really good builders to choose from who will do a better job than much of the mass produced stuff. The beauty being you can have it tailored to your requirements (I think a certain fat bloke charges tens of thousands for essentially that and a badge...). Quality workmanship and a fair price, there's a lot to be said for it.
You pay your money and take your choice.
-
I think everyone is entitled to their opinion.
This includes yours Jayde.. this is a forum so chill out.
The correct response when someone joins a forum to unload on everyone there after scouring the the internet for negative comments on a product is to politely ask how long our newest member has been working for that particular company, or even if we are graced by the presence of its owner ... I mean if so then maybe we can get an explanation about the dangers of changing preamp tubes in these supposedly extremely temperamental amplifiers and other questions that might have been voiced.
-
I just re-read the thread and in fact there is very little negative comment about Vonhatski amps anyway. The debate was more about what constitutes "affordable".
Seems like Jayde Starr (Falling Red?) got out of the wrong side of bed this morning.... :?
-
I just re-read the thread and in fact there is very little negative comment about Vonhatski amps anyway. The debate was more about what constitutes "affordable".
Seems like Jayde Starr (Falling Red?) got out of the wrong side of bed this morning.... :?
I'm suprised he dug the thread up to be honest, but yep, that was the jist of the thread indeed. gotta love fanboys with confirmation bias
-
Post gut shots. Lets see how well these things are made. I'm interested.
-
http://www.vonhatski.com/news/post/falling-red_10/ (http://www.vonhatski.com/news/post/falling-red_10/)
Vonhatski Amplification is pleased to announce two new Artists to our roster! The Bad Boys of British Rock 'Jayde Starr' and 'Rozey' of Falling Red have just signed up to Vonhatski Amps ...
I'd say nice things about an amp I was paid to endorse too.
-
"Bad Boys"? never heard of them
to be fair, not an expert on endorsement deals, but i don't think people get paid or receive free gear much unless they're mega huge, i think artist discounts are more the norm
-
Funny how in a thread about the transparency of magazine reviews someone spontaneously pops up to post a biased opinion. If I had a suspicious nature I could almost concoct a paranoid fantasy whereby someone actually googled the amp name, found a slightly scathing mention of them and leapt to their defence. Either because they're paid to endorse them or because they're personal friends with the manufacturer.
Good job I'm not that suspicious.
-
Well yes, people don't get paid to endorse gear unless they're mega huge. People also don't get listed as endorsers simply because they bought the amps. And yet two members of one unknown band get listed as endorsing the amps AND one of them feels the need to leap to the defence of the gear, simply by randomly stumbling across a mention of the amp on a forum.
You'll have to excuse me if I view this as more than simple coincidence.
-
I saw Falling Red Last year supporting Steel Panther (I think...unless it was supporting Judas Priest)
Haven't really heard much of them before that, but they put on a fairly spirited performance.
But the amps may well be excellent and they may have gone out of their way to find some up and coming bands to show their product to.
When starting out it is indeed very hard to get any profile until a few artists are genuinely inspired to try out and take up using your stuff.
It may well be that an "artist deal" has been done that sweetened the price to whatever extent, much like BKP do with certain bands.
It is actually nice that an artist endorsing the product has put his hat (even a Von Hat-ski) in the ring to tell us that the product is worth trying out.
It is actually something you'd expect of an endorsee.
It's no different than if we were discussing the shortcomings of a Rebel Yell pickup and Steve Stevens came and explained how he uses the pickup and what it was designed to do.
My own product is considered expensive and out of the reach of many players budgets, but thankfully many of you may have seen it and know what it's like.
If Guitarist reviewed my guitars and said it was money well spent based on the playing experience and overall impression I wonder if I would face a similar type of discussion.
I do get to see a lot of low to mid thru high end guitars here in my repair shop and know that many budget instruments can be great guitars and punch way above their price tag.
However it doesn't mean that the PRS, Suhr, and high end Fender/Gibsons are taking the piss with what they cost.
-
Fair enough then. Although personally I would have said "I found this thread while searching for Vonhatski amps, I'm an endorser and I think they're pretty good".
Because that's just a bit more honest.
-
^+1
Zog, your tag is really familiar, are you on TDPRI? or D*A*M?
-
Fair enough then. Although personally I would have said "I found this thread while searching for Vonhatski amps, I'm an endorser and I think they're pretty good".
Because that's just a bit more honest.
:lol: +1
-
If Guitarist reviewed my guitars and said it was money well spent based on the playing experience and overall impression I wonder if I would face a similar type of discussion.
Nobody is bashing the amps. Just the idea put forward by the magazine that they are affordable to whoever they said in the article. I can't be bothered reading it again, I found it full of annoying rhetoric.
-
I wonder how much they were paid for that particular review?
-
It's no different than if we were discussing the shortcomings of a Rebel Yell pickup and Steve Stevens came and explained how he uses the pickup and what it was designed to do.
Just reading the thread again, I'd say there's a very big difference. I know that Steve Stevens is a BKP endorsee, I had to use Google to find out that Jayde_Starr is affiliated with the amp manufacturer he is bigging up. Had he chosen a different user name then I would never have known that and I would have taken his comments to be an unbiased appraisal of the amps.
I don't mind endorsees praising gear as long as I know that there's a degree of mutual back-scratching going on. I say a lot of nice things about various small manufacturers on other forums and I'm always careful to mention that I have no affiliation. To my mind, the "coincidence" of an affiliated endorsee just happening to find this thread and posting a series of positive statements really does the manufacturer no favours at all, it's like publicity companies writing wikipedia pages for people.
-
Re the original topic of this thread and the discussions about endorsements etc , I notice that the November issue of Guitarist features Guthrie Govan and a review of the new line of Victory amps he is using currently and a plug for his forthcoming Charvel signature guitar , discuss. :P
-
Add to that Guthrie Govan used to work for the Guitarist family of magazines - and that no-one except widdle stick shred aficionados (who read Guitarist) has ever heard of him.
-
although to be fair, he is immensely talented and a very nice guy :P
-
Add to that Guthrie Govan used to work for the Guitarist family of magazines - and that no-one except widdle stick shred aficionados (who read Guitarist) has ever heard of him.
Well not quite true. Fans of Steven Wilsons solo albums, which are a modern and typically dark attempt at the root idea of prog rock (classic and jazz musicians making pop music, which at that time was rock) the later of which has an especially strong 60s vibe, can also know him. That is where I first heard of him and was very impressed by his playing. That man can put feel into things and work within a band. Brilliant. He played on "The Raven that refused to sing (and other stories)" and tours with Wilson.
-
Add to that Guthrie Govan used to work for the Guitarist family of magazines - and that no-one except widdle stick shred aficionados (who read Guitarist) has ever heard of him.
Well not quite true. Fans of Steven Wilsons solo albums, which are a modern and typically dark attempt at the root idea of prog rock (classic and jazz musicians making pop music, which at that time was rock) the later of which has an especially strong 60s vibe, can also know him. That is where I first heard of him and was very impressed by his playing. That man can put feel into things and work within a band. Brilliant. He played on "The Raven that refused to sing (and other stories)" and tours with Wilson.
Fans of Dizzee Rascal may also have heard of him, although they may not - for the most part - be particularly big guitar fans.
-
Add to that Guthrie Govan used to work for the Guitarist family of magazines - and that no-one except widdle stick shred aficionados (who read Guitarist) has ever heard of him.
Well not quite true. Fans of Steven Wilsons solo albums, which are a modern and typically dark attempt at the root idea of prog rock (classic and jazz musicians making pop music, which at that time was rock) the later of which has an especially strong 60s vibe, can also know him. That is where I first heard of him and was very impressed by his playing. That man can put feel into things and work within a band. Brilliant. He played on "The Raven that refused to sing (and other stories)" and tours with Wilson.
Fans of Dizzee Rascal may also have heard of him, although they may not - for the most part - be particularly big guitar fans.
Ok, the last thing I would have expected from you Philly is mentioning someone like Dizzee Rascal (not that I am a fan or even really aquainted with his work myself). You really are full of surprises after all. Cheers to that!
-
I'm not a Dizzee Rascal fan at all, although he does seem to be a bit more interesting musically than a lot of rap/hip hop artists (nothing against that music, it's just not my thing).
I just happened to see Guthrie playing with Dizzee on a Jools Holland show, or something similar.
-
Re the original topic of this thread and the discussions about endorsements etc , I notice that the November issue of Guitarist features Guthrie Govan and a review of the new line of Victory amps he is using currently and a plug for his forthcoming Charvel signature guitar , discuss. :P
The original topic was guitarists definition of affordable ;) however yep i happened to see the Victory amp today on music radar. Clicked on the review, got a few lines in and yes, yet another premium boutique amp.. basically lost interest and stopped reading after that. I just think the markets getting saturated now.. DaveMC will hopefully testify to what i'm about to say, the same thing happened in the boutique pedal market. Everyone and his dog suddenly became a boutique pedal builder, and boutique became equated with pricey and over rated (which isn't necessarily the case at all) There was the minor beginnings of a backlash, then the freekish blues (and a number of other things happened) and there was a major backlash.
What you have left now is a a whole market of confused consumers who don't know whats good, whats a rip off, whats worth having, and are basically just hacked off with the whole thing.
Go to any larger forum with a dedicated effects sub forum, or indeed an purely effects forum, and ask "whats the best OD for...". You'll get a multitude of answers from fanboys, cynics, enthusiasts, everyone basically, and they'll all be different. Also they'll pretty much rubbish every other option mentioned in the case of the fanboys for various mojo reasons.
the Tubescreamer is a case in point. most builders and companies have a version of it now. at the extremes off the market is the Joyo, and the Keeley modded TS.
Said it before.. but.. I have a Keeley modded 808 RI, all the mods, got it back when the prices were still reasonable, second hand so even cheaper actually than a new unmodded 808 from ibanez or maxon. i also have an original TS9 from 84, with all the mojo green dipped resistors and JRC4558D. didn't pay a fortune for that either. I've played a fair number of the clones too.
Now, that keeley pedal with all the mods is the better part of £300 new (guitar guitar) and the cheapest of the ibanez ones is the RI TS9 at about £90. Cheaper again (i think) is the visual sound route 808. The 808 is closest to the keeley with all the mods built in, and is really sturdy for an SMT pedal. And the difference between them is very very subtle, to the point where i'd be suprised if you could pick them apart in a blind test, and certainly not in a live mix. but there's a price difference of nearly £200 quid just between the examples i've named..
thats why people are hacked off.
I stick with what i know these days amp wise, and thats Soldano.. don't see any reason to change that and if it wasn't Soldano, it'd probably be Cornford, or Marshall, or Laney or something similar.. even Lazy J, or the builders here who i know know their stuff. yes, some of those guys are boutique, but the common thread with these guys is they all established themselves before the current explosion on the boutique market, or i know their rep thru word of mouth.
On the subject of Guthries Charvel, am actually suprised he moved away from Suhr, but it's a nice guitar. Not keen on this baked maple fretboard thing though. If i remember rightly he went thru a prototype of it on a guitariist DVD or summat a while back. There were a lot of very refined and specialised tweaks and features on it. Some people might cry mojo, but i can believe that in Guthries case, he plays guitars to their full potential, so refinements for his style and personality are necessary to go beyond that potential. Kinda like 99% of us would love to own a ferrari (or something) but will never get the best out of it because we're just not that good at driving. Guthries a guitar Schumacher. Doubtless a lot of those sales will be people who'll hear about the specs and convince themselves they need one, but will never play that guitar to its full potential.
I prefer the music zoo charvels myself (natural series) which certainly look to be what the guthrie model was partly inspired by..
to be honest I'd be happy with a current pro mod charvel if it wasn't for those sodding backrouted floyds..
-
What you have left now is a a whole market of confused consumers who don't know whats good, whats a rip off, whats worth having, and are basically just hacked off with the whole thing.
This is about the crux of it for me personally and why I don't buy magazines. I think after someone has spent a long time getting to know about different bits of kit (in my case amps, and I'm FAR from any kind of expert) then you just start to see through all the nonsense. Juan must have the same thing. Every time a new fancy boost pedal pops up, how long is it before it is exposed as being essentially a tube screamer?
Amps too. I don't mind an amp costing a lot if I can see the worksmanship and attention to detail that SHOULD be in small run high end amps (but should really be in all new amps) but all too often it's repeats of old circuits built with an amount of care that I wouldn't call low, just not above average. Even that wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't done "warts & all" as it is in a lot of cases. Also, when people DO claim to make new and exciting valve circuits it's often nonsense. The technology was covered to death years ago when it was the main technology of the day. Now that it's pretty much obselete outside of music it's not like there is anything cutting edge happening with it.
When I see a hefty price tag I like to see exactly how something is made and what its made of before I consider parting with cash. If something is meant to have "state of the art" components I want to know what they are and what they are doing. I'm even less concerned with marketting waffle about non quantifiable tonal benefits. The more 'blah' a read from a company the less interested I get. Show me what it is and let the work speak for itself. Job done.
PS. I like that new Guthrie Charvel.
-
I tend to stick with a few brands that I have had good experience with and that friends who play the same kind of music have recommended to me. The Peavey 6505 amp series was recommended to me by a few friends and I was aware also of a few issues with them and the common fixes. So I picked the amp out of that series that I liked and then got an ISP Decimator and a Maxon overdrive for it. Sharon Bascovsky from Derketa had been raving about the Polytune on facebook and several of my friends who I respect chimed in with their agreement on that pedal so I got one of those. I had positive experiences with a couple of MXR/Dunlop pedals so I ended up getting a few more of them, and several of the pedals - such as the Carbon Copy, the EVH Phase 90, and the Crybaby From Hell - had been recommended to me by people. The T-Rex Fuel Tank Chameleon was recommended to me by someone here, same thing with the Orange PPC412 cab.
I tend to take the advice of people with similar needs to mine who are just a step or two ahead of me on it rather than magazines or business owners as the basis of my decisions. Sure some people have big egos and just want you to endorse their decisions by buying what they bought but I can generally sniff that kind of attitude out. Magazines are generally hype. Their decisions are determined by advertising dollars. Actual sales of magazines are only a small part of their revenue. In terms of credibility they are just as happy with the appearance of it as with the real thing
-
PS. I like that new Guthrie Charvel.
http://www.themusiczoo.com/product/982/Charvel-Custom-Shop-Exclusive-San-Dimas-Koa-Natural-Series-Electric-Guitar/ (http://www.themusiczoo.com/product/982/Charvel-Custom-Shop-Exclusive-San-Dimas-Koa-Natural-Series-Electric-Guitar/)
there's the natural series, I will have one some day...
I like the Guthrie too, didn't mean to give the impression i didn't, I just prefer the asthetic of the natural series a little more (and the non routed floyd vs the current pro mods lol)
What you have left now is a a whole market of confused consumers who don't know whats good, whats a rip off, whats worth having, and are basically just hacked off with the whole thing.
This is about the crux of it for me personally and why I don't buy magazines. I think after someone has spent a long time getting to know about different bits of kit (in my case amps, and I'm FAR from any kind of expert) then you just start to see through all the nonsense. Juan must have the same thing. Every time a new fancy boost pedal pops up, how long is it before it is exposed as being essentially a tube screamer?
This is the thing, despite some forum's obvious insanity, forums are still the best source of info about gear (in the case of pedals i'm thinking about freestompboxes and the dude on TGP who, despite the wider mentalness shown there was the the guy who degooped the Jan Ray and outed it as a Timmy). It doesn't seem to occur to mags (neither is it worth their while i guess) to find out more about the product they're reviewing.
Then you get some of the higher end guitar stores like Guitar Guitar, who, despite having a good selection of high end and boutique gear, really don't know what they're selling.
I went in there a while back to buy a delay, and started talking to the guy about strobe tuners (was looking for a turbo tuner at the time). and he turned round and recommended to me something or other that had a strobe mode but, importantly, wasn't a true strobe tuner. It was a had a virtual "strobe" mode, in addition to a bunch of other display options (wasn't a polytune, but can't remember exactly what it was). When i explained to him that a strobe tuner was a very specific thing in terms of functionality and how it worked, he actually looked a little PO'd.. like i'd made an idiot out of him or something. Then i noticed they had the Vemurem Jan Rays in stock. I said something like "Oh no.. you didn't get those in did you?" again he looked suprised, and i told him about it's outing as a clone for twice the price of the original.
i was given a very cool reception after that..
Shops do not like people who know their stuff. I'm not an expert, but I do keep an ear to the ground.
It seems to me the shops (as entities rather than individual salesmen) are just as happy to promote hype as the Magazines are. I know they don't have the time to research everything they sell, i mean the guys responsible for getting new lines in, but they started selling that pedal after the Jan Ray thing broke when 2 mins on google would have told them what the score was. I actually think it's a little immoral to be selling those things.
-
DaveMC will hopefully testify to what i'm about to say, the same thing happened in the boutique pedal market. Everyone and his dog suddenly became a boutique pedal builder, and boutique became equated with pricey and over rated (which isn't necessarily the case at all) There was the minor beginnings of a backlash, then the freekish blues (and a number of other things happened) and there was a major backlash.
What you have left now is a a whole market of confused consumers who don't know whats good, whats a rip off, whats worth having, and are basically just hacked off with the whole thing.
Juan Solo or someone like that will know way better than me, but yeah, that sounds about right :lol:
People are right to be annoyed, too. I was very, very close to buying a bunch of boutique effects before the whole freekish thing blew up. Which then made me investigate further. But really it was just dumb luck that saved me. Are there plenty of more reputable good effects makers too? Sure. But the less scrupulous ones spoil it for everyone. I basically won't buy a pedal now until I know what its circuit is.
This is about the crux of it for me personally and why I don't buy magazines. I think after someone has spent a long time getting to know about different bits of kit (in my case amps, and I'm FAR from any kind of expert) then you just start to see through all the nonsense. Juan must have the same thing. Every time a new fancy boost pedal pops up, how long is it before it is exposed as being essentially a tube screamer?
Amps too. I don't mind an amp costing a lot if I can see the worksmanship and attention to detail that SHOULD be in small run high end amps (but should really be in all new amps) but all too often it's repeats of old circuits built with an amount of care that I wouldn't call low, just not above average. Even that wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't done "warts & all" as it is in a lot of cases. Also, when people DO claim to make new and exciting valve circuits it's often nonsense. The technology was covered to death years ago when it was the main technology of the day. Now that it's pretty much obselete outside of music it's not like there is anything cutting edge happening with it.
When I see a hefty price tag I like to see exactly how something is made and what its made of before I consider parting with cash. If something is meant to have "state of the art" components I want to know what they are and what they are doing. I'm even less concerned with marketting waffle about non quantifiable tonal benefits. The more 'blah' a read from a company the less interested I get. Show me what it is and let the work speak for itself. Job done.
Agreed (and I know far less that you and Juan Solo know).
(a) This is the thing, despite some forum's obvious insanity, forums are still the best source of info about gear (in the case of pedals i'm thinking about freestompboxes and the dude on TGP who, despite the wider mentalness shown there was the the guy who degooped the Jan Ray and outed it as a Timmy). It doesn't seem to occur to mags (neither is it worth their while i guess) to find out more about the product they're reviewing.
(b) Then i noticed they had the Vemurem Jan Rays in stock. I said something like "Oh no.. you didn't get those in did you?" again he looked suprised, and i told him about it's outing as a clone for twice the price of the original.
i was given a very cool reception after that..
Shops do not like people who know their stuff. I'm not an expert, but I do keep an ear to the ground.
(a) I don't think I'd call that guy a TGPer. I know him on Ultimate Guitar, I'd say he's more of a regular there than TGP, he's as sceptical (actually probably more so) of TGP as we are. He's on freestompboxes and sites like that, too- I don't want to categorise him, as he's more than capable of speaking for himself, lol, but yeah, he's not exactly your regular TGPer, I don't think.
Even saying that, there are some people on TGP who have sense. Much like the pedal thing, the bad ones spoil it for the rest. Though at TGP it doesn't help that the mods often take the side of the bad ones.
(b) :lol:
And yeah, agreed. While you have good shops too, which are happy to talk gear with people who half know what they're talking about, you have the other thing too which you said, where they don't like to be challenged and would rather sell to someone who doesn't know who'll buy the BS they're spouting.
The other thing that's quite concerning too is that you don't have to know that much, a lot of the time, to see through their nonsense. I mean, I could understand it if Jonathan/Feline or Juan Solo or HTH or someone like that who makes the things knew more than your average guitar shop worker- but even someone who knows as little as me can often see through what they're saying.
-
DaveMC will hopefully testify to what i'm about to say, the same thing happened in the boutique pedal market. Everyone and his dog suddenly became a boutique pedal builder, and boutique became equated with pricey and over rated (which isn't necessarily the case at all) There was the minor beginnings of a backlash, then the freekish blues (and a number of other things happened) and there was a major backlash.
What you have left now is a a whole market of confused consumers who don't know whats good, whats a rip off, whats worth having, and are basically just hacked off with the whole thing.
Juan Solo or someone like that will know way better than me, but yeah, that sounds about right :lol:
People are right to be annoyed, too. I was very, very close to buying a bunch of boutique effects before the whole freekish thing blew up. Which then made me investigate further. But really it was just dumb luck that saved me. Are there plenty of more reputable good effects makers too? Sure. But the less scrupulous ones spoil it for everyone. I basically won't buy a pedal now until I know what its circuit is.
A LOT of unscrupulous peeps cashed in on the boutique pedal thing. But there are signs... Is it massively expensive? Does it look like it was assembled by a blindfolded parkinson's sufferer? Is it marketed with the floweriest fluff that tells you nothing at all about the actual effect, but claims that not only will it make your SS amp sound like a vintage tube amp, it'll make you more awesome. Does it look like it was painted by a 3 year old or labeled up by someone who frankly didn't give a shite? Is it the current latest TGP fad? Finally has someone sneezed black goop all over it or made attempts to hide what's in it.
The best thing to do is try them yourself if you can. Or ask questions on the DIY forums. The people on there have dissected and reverse engineered most effects (because it's fun) and will give you an idea of what's what.
BUT
Like amps and like guitars, there are only so many variations of pedals out there. So complaining that most pedals are Tube Screamers at heart is like complaining most amps are Fenders/Marshals or most guitars are essentially Les Pauls or Strats/Teles...
-
Like amps and like guitars, there are only so many variations of pedals out there. So complaining that most pedals are Tube Screamers at heart is like complaining most amps are Fenders/Marshals or most guitars are essentially Les Pauls or Strats/Teles...
which is fine, however.. i don't think anyones particulary bothered about most pedals being tube screamers, UNLESS of course it's as you described and is claiming to be something it's not. Or has been mojofied with magic capacitors etc and a premium charged. Like i said, the TS's run from £30 to, quite literally 10x that. and they al sound very much the same.
There is another aspect though, Build quality is important. There's a discussion on TDPRI over joyo pedals. Noones saying they sound bad, quite the opposite in fact, but what most people are saying is that the durability is sketchy. So sometimes, when you buy "boutique" you can be paying a little more for something thats rock solid and will last forever. Same with amps too.
Oh, meant to ask Juan, you mentioned a while back, in another thread, someone was working on degooping the Lazy J cruiser, did anything ever come of that?
-
Don't think so. Check out FSB. Generally speaking, when it comes to tracing boutique stuff, it's all there. But it's only visible if you sign up.
It doesn't look like anyone's been arsed to de-goop it yet. Someones posted pictures of the guts and it certainly ticks a few of the boxes I mentioned about. It looks like it was wired by someone on speed during the throes of orgasm and someone sneezed black snot all over it.
-
I got a Maxon for the build quality.
Then I found I don't really like the OD-9's footswitch, so now I am going for a cheaper MXR version.
Seriously though, these must be some high fidelity PAs that people are playing through with their tube screamers if anyone can tell the difference when they are on stage. Plus most gigs I go to are so loud people are either wearing ear plugs or are going deaf from not wearing them, so how could they pick subtle differences between boutique and bargain bin? A lot of it seems to be about 'my wallet is bigger than yours' bragging rights
-
Also true. Again the same can be said for amps, guitars and pickups.
-
... mojofied with magic capacitors etc and a premium charged.
https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=198&zenid=9f2e3994ce3337f059bcf2dd8ef61068 (https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=198&zenid=9f2e3994ce3337f059bcf2dd8ef61068)
-
I'm saying nothin'.
-
I got a Maxon for the build quality.
Then I found I don't really like the OD-9's footswitch, so now I am going for a cheaper MXR version.
Seriously though, these must be some high fidelity PAs that people are playing through with their tube screamers if anyone can tell the difference when they are on stage. Plus most gigs I go to are so loud people are either wearing ear plugs or are going deaf from not wearing them, so how could they pick subtle differences between boutique and bargain bin? A lot of it seems to be about 'my wallet is bigger than yours' bragging rights
Can be, can be. to be fair to the keeley (although i can't justify the current price of it) they have a less/more mod that gives you an extended gain pot range, so you can get more of a clean boost, and more gain too. also the bottom end is less flubby, but thats less noticeable. Then again i believe the VS Route 808 has those mods built in and is cheaper than a TS9.
Some of it is, some of is isn't. Skreddys for example (they too have gone up in price) are very very good, specific sound Big Muffs, and built expertly like tanks. D*A*M does some very very faitful repros of old circuits, but also has some really intersting stuff like the Dragnfly which i s a cross between a tonebender and fuzzface. Again, only expensive second hand, but get on a list, have some patience and you pay a reasonable price. Also built like tanks. I have a Dragnfly, there's nothing else like it, very unique in terms of what it does.way more flexible than either of its parents.
There's a brand called Nine Volt Nirvana. I'm lucky enough to own a few of their pedals, and they are they best fuzz and drive pedals i own. The really cool thing about them is when the company went belly up the owner open sourced the schematics, so people could still have one if they wanted.
But yes, I also agree live mixes are a great equaliser. Some of it is the guitarist being happy with their own tone. Most people in an audience in your average pub, bar or club gig, lets face it, can't tell the difference between Marshall OD, Fender OD, Vox OD etc etc, never mind pedals. so there is an argument for being happy with your set up.
-
... mojofied with magic capacitors etc and a premium charged.
https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=198&zenid=9f2e3994ce3337f059bcf2dd8ef61068 (https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=198&zenid=9f2e3994ce3337f059bcf2dd8ef61068)
Lol perhaps not the best example on my part, should have said mojo Op Amps..
Have never got myself any of the BKP caps or owt like that, and i won't try to justify em. I will defend the pickups to the death though and the attention that goes into building them.
Juan, If you get a chance, check out those NVN schems, would be interested to see what you'd think of them if you built it.
-
For my money I really like the ElectroHarmoniX range of pedals. Was sold on them when someone here posted a video clip of the Doctor Who theme reproduced using their pedals. Whether or not they are clones of this or that , I don't have the tech knowledge to say and to be honest , I don't care if they are or not because they keep pumping out really interesting sounding gear at wallet friendly prices , so I've never felt ripped off in any sense or disappointed with the build quality and durability, and no , there's no cheque in the post to me for saying this 8)
-
Personally by now I have 3 kinds of pedals I like out of the whole market:
1. Selfbuild clones. Boosts, Fuzzes, comps and some other stuff. Fuzzes, comps and boosts can take central parts for me but a lot of this is trying stuff out any toying around.
2. Juansolo stuff. Anything I can't build myself (yet xD) and when I just need good quality for the most part. Great stuff, even better bloke. Will recommend to anyone who'll listen.
3. Strymon pedals. I am not aware of anyone who can clone these as they are hella complex and advanced (not that I have seen schematics though). Don't even know if they can be considered truly boutique in the way we often use it, seems more like high end gear to me really. Extremely versatile and amazing quality. Not cheap but I feel not overpriced, at least in my mind. For me these are insanely great.
Disclaimer: I am paid by neither Strymon, Juansolo nor myself....well maybe by myself. =)
Of course there are some other smaller things out there that strike my fancy, but nothing much noteworthy really. I do like my MXR 10 Band EQ for example. And of course the clones John or I build are based on things (though John brings a lot more selfmodding into it). There are also some other ones out there I would gladly buy like Devi Ever stuff. While I think they are a bit overpriced for example the Zvex stuff is pretty great. The Machine looks pretty innovative to me and the Super Hard On while insanely simple still is a pretty unusual and new way for a booster to work (though from what I read Vexter was only like the second or so guy to do it). So you got a booster which is a great circuit, pretty unique, but which is so freaking small and simple that it can be taped to the side of a push pull poti and build for peanuts, but sells for more than 100 quid in the cheaper version. All parts together this would cost me less than 10 to make. Deduct savings from bigger orders of parts, add labour costs and sum total I still can't see how over 100 quid is fair considering for how much other circuits go. Of course here we get into the discussion of what people are willing to pay will be charged and all that, I just wanne say with things like this I personally draw the line. If I pay a lot for a Strymon Timeline I can kinda see a lot more value for money.
Point I was trying to make at the beginning before I drifted off was that I don't find a lot of stuff where I feel like I should buy it because the price properly fits the product. Somethings I would gladly pay (Strymon, Devi ever, etc), some are ok (MXR, etc), but the largest chunk of things feel so overpriced, especially when you look at what it is, that I just rather make a clone or have one made.
-
Some of it is, some of is isn't. Skreddys for example (they too have gone up in price) are very very good, specific sound Big Muffs, and built expertly like tanks. D*A*M does some very very faitful repros of old circuits, but also has some really intersting stuff like the Dragnfly which i s a cross between a tonebender and fuzzface. Again, only expensive second hand, but get on a list, have some patience and you pay a reasonable price. Also built like tanks. I have a Dragnfly, there's nothing else like it, very unique in terms of what it does.way more flexible than either of its parents.
Marc (Skreddy) and Dave (DAM) are what I consider to be good guys of the boutique world. They're totally transparent about what they're building (muffs and old fuzzes) and they just do them with a great ear and great skill.
You tend to find the good guys are genuinely interested in the pedals and when the DIY guys pull them apart, rather than brand them terrorists and try and get the site closed down, they'll help correct any errors. Mainly because they don't want us building them and thinking 'well that's a bag of shite' when there are mistakes in the trace. Also because they tend to be pedal geeks like us. PaulC, Subdecay and Catalinbread are another few that come to mind when it comes to good guys who make great and interesting gear. For unique stuff EarthQuakerDevices have some barking mad things (check out the Rainbow Machine. ...and yes I do own one).
Juan, If you get a chance, check out those NVN schems, would be interested to see what you'd think of them if you built it.
Will check them out later
3. Strymon pedals. I am not aware of anyone who can clone these as they are hella complex and advanced (not that I have seen schematics though). Don't even know if they can be considered truly boutique in the way we often use it, seems more like high end gear to me really. Extremely versatile and amazing quality. Not cheap but I feel not overpriced, at least in my mind. For me these are insanely great.
Strymon (also Eventide and Neunaber) are all digital effects. They're likely only actually one circuit (probably DSP) and the different pedals are actually just different algorithms loaded on to them. The Neunaber stuff is a great example of this as you can buy any one of his pedals and flash it to be any other. I love that, especially as he's honing and tweaking them all the time and the updates are all free.
Cloning the hardware wouldn't actually be impossible. Copying the software (algorithms) would be difficult and absolutely illegal. You might not be able to copyright hardware (because it can be reverse engineered), but you can absolutely copyright software. You'll never see clones of these effects.
For my money I really like the ElectroHarmoniX range of pedals. Was sold on them when someone here posted a video clip of the Doctor Who theme reproduced using their pedals. Whether or not they are clones of this or that , I don't have the tech knowledge to say and to be honest , I don't care if they are or not because they keep pumping out really interesting sounding gear at wallet friendly prices , so I've never felt ripped off in any sense or disappointed with the build quality and durability, and no , there's no cheque in the post to me for saying this 8)
Mike Matthews (Mr EHX) is one of the pioneers of pedals. He's been copied a-plenty rather than the other way around!
Worth watching if you've got an hour and a half to spare:
fuzz - the sound that revolutionized the world (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibu4x3ae87M#)
-
There is no guarantee that Booteek is better quality than Joyo - For example I have an HBE Power Screamer - the pot has gone south and a resistor has burnt out due to poor wiring on the 9v input (which was somewhat frightening). The diode selector switch works 7 times out of 10. On the other hand, the problem I have had no problems with the cheap as shitee Joyo.
-
I had an HBE wah once. The 9v socket was wired backwards so it wouldn't work off a wall wart. It also got kicked across the stage at a show and broke. After that I never used it again. Junk.
-
There is no guarantee that Booteek is better quality than Joyo - For example I have an HBE Power Screamer - the pot has gone south and a resistor has burnt out due to poor wiring on the 9v input (which was somewhat frightening). The diode selector switch works 7 times out of 10. On the other hand, the problem I have had no problems with the cheap as shiteee Joyo.
All my Boss- and Ibanez-pedals from the early 80's are still going strong. They never failed.
-
Worth watching if you've got an hour and a half to spare:
fuzz - the sound that revolutionized the world (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibu4x3ae87M#)
thats an awesome documentary especially when they get into "transparent" pedals lol
"Transparent?? It adds high end!"
-
There is no guarantee that Booteek is better quality than Joyo - For example I have an HBE Power Screamer - the pot has gone south and a resistor has burnt out due to poor wiring on the 9v input (which was somewhat frightening). The diode selector switch works 7 times out of 10. On the other hand, the problem I have had no problems with the cheap as shiteee Joyo.
Noone said Joyo were bad, quite the opposite in fact, here's the thread i was referring to
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/stomp-box/441023-joyo-pedals-whats-verdict.html (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/stomp-box/441023-joyo-pedals-whats-verdict.html)
as for HBE i have no experience of them as they never appealed to me. Guarantee is a dangerous word though. that implies "No siree, it will not fail or have any defects no matter what". I'd rather hear "I tell you what, if we do drop the ball, we'll damn sure sort it out". I would still say, that buying from a small builder, who is honest and upfront, who has a good word of mouth rep, and who knows what they're doing will buy you better durability and reliability than you find in general on the market place.
And then to say "all boss and ibanez pedals I own in the 80's have never failed" is a red herring. Go to analogmans site for pictures of trashed TS9's. And i know of plenty of boss pedals that have died, one of mine included. Saying a wah stopped working after it got kicked across a stage is like saying you couldn't drive a car after you slashed its tires ;)
It's worth noting by the way that mass production in the 60's 70's and 80's means something very different from now
Lets take it back to Amps, lets say Matchless and Soldano, both opposite ends of the construction spectrum within the "Boutique" market. both legendary for their durability. both legendary for putting right things when they do go wrong (SLO100? Transferable lifetime warranty???). Recent Marshalls and Fenders? not the same level, but not bad. Old Marshalls, Fenders and Voxs? well.. here's the funny thing. they're still going strong. But how they were made back then would be what people think of as "boutique" building now.. except back then it wasn't. It was just how you did things
all I'm trying to say is that, when it comes to, lets call it high end gear because i hate the word boutique, there's many different levels within that, with no real way for the consumer to differentiate. Expensive doesn't equal good, we know that. but we have to take stuff on case by case, company by company basis. The "small operation" companies that i know and more importantly, trust (and lets face it we're on the forum for one) hand build their products, or have a high level QC process if they don't (thinking Strymon there because in the bog scheme of things, they are a small operation and what they've done is pretty unique), are built like tanks, and don't cost the earth.
-
I'd like to add, I didn't kick it across the stage. It got trampled by other people than myself. I just got tired of it being unreliable compared to a run of the mill nothing fancy about it crybaby and so I got rid of it. It should have been able to take the knock that it took. It meant I had to repatch my cables mid song. awful. After that I gave up putting any pedals at the front of the stage.
-
And then to say "all boss and ibanez pedals I own in the 80's have never failed" is a red herring. Go to analogmans site for pictures of trashed TS9's. And i know of plenty of boss pedals that have died, one of mine included. Saying a wah stopped working after it got kicked across a stage is like saying you couldn't drive a car after you slashed its tires ;)
I've repaired a Boss compressor that was fitted with ICs that weren't rated for 9v... Inevitably they failed. Swapped them for ones that were and off we go again. Cheap pedal that ;)
Honestly 'boutiqueness' or cost guarantees absolutely nothing. A *LOT* of them are in it for the money and to make any money at all out of pedals you have to make 'em cheap and sell 'em pricey. This I would say counts for an awful lot of boutique builders.
I can tell you now that the better builders do not make a great deal hand making pedals in their basements... How PaulC can survive at the price he sells the Timmy for is beyond me for example.
I've looked into making pedals for a living and it's just not financially viable unless I could sell them at £400 a pop or get the boards and boxes mass produced in China.
Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.
-
Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.
PLEASE BE SPACE RITUALS!!
Paddy
-
Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.
PLEASE BE SPACE RITUALS!!
Paddy
LOL, no. They're quite intensive to say the least! That's not to say that I couldn't do another. All the boards that go into it are currently available and I've even got a large enclosure spare and a 4th decal as I was on a run when I was doing those... See who gets this one:
(http://www.juansolo.demon.co.uk/misc/SpaceSmoker.jpg)
Appologies for completely derailing this thread by the way... *blushes*
No the only pedals that I seem to be able to shift with relative ease are Klones. We've got a good relationship with a bloke in Canada and we're going to have a few boards coming from them that we've had a say in how they'll turn out (they'll be commercial pedals over there). Essentially we were discussing (from a builders perspective) how to make the perfect Klone. Electronically it's still identical to the usual Klones. But we've got it so it's going to be compact, robust and easy to assemble. Looking forward to getting our hands on the prototype board for that one to see how it goes.
The theory is that it'll finally get us into the black on the pedal building (not sure that's ever happened) and pay for some powder coating gear so we can coat our own enclosures rather than having to buy them in. That's the idea anyhow.
-
^
Love that Dopesmoker artwork!
-
I'd probably use a different font to be fair. I just threw that at the template and it fitted really nicely. I might build it anyhow...
-
Guys, I don't say they never break down, I just share my experience with my pedals. My old Boss and Ibbie-pedals are still on my board, well most of them, and really, they never failed. Period.
Oh yeah, and some of my socalled Booteek-pedals like a Toadworks Dual Boost and an Emma Discumbobulator failed en needed repair.
-
A LOT of unscrupulous peeps cashed in on the boutique pedal thing. But there are signs... Is it massively expensive? Does it look like it was assembled by a blindfolded parkinson's sufferer? Is it marketed with the floweriest fluff that tells you nothing at all about the actual effect, but claims that not only will it make your SS amp sound like a vintage tube amp, it'll make you more awesome. Does it look like it was painted by a 3 year old or labeled up by someone who frankly didn't give a shitee? Is it the current latest TGP fad? Finally has someone sneezed black goop all over it or made attempts to hide what's in it.
The best thing to do is try them yourself if you can. Or ask questions on the DIY forums. The people on there have dissected and reverse engineered most effects (because it's fun) and will give you an idea of what's what.
BUT
Like amps and like guitars, there are only so many variations of pedals out there. So complaining that most pedals are Tube Screamers at heart is like complaining most amps are Fenders/Marshals or most guitars are essentially Les Pauls or Strats/Teles...
Yeah absolutely. The things that made me suspicious about the Jan Ray were the price and the stuff written about it on its website- it almost sounded like a parody of a boutique pedal.
And yeah that's true about the strat/tele thing, but at least people selling slightly tweaked strats and teles aren't pretending they're something else- it's the pretending they've reinvented the wheel and charging $400 or $600 for a very slightly tweaked tubescreamer (or bluesbreaker, or whatever) that I have a problem with. If someone wants to spend $600 on a "better" tubescreamer, that's their prerogative- as long as the company making it is up-front that it's essentially a tweaked TS. The problem arises when the manufacturer pretends it's something else which you can't get elsewhere- in my opinion, that involves an element of deception or fraud.
And yeah the build quality thing can go either way- with the good guys, you're paying for better quality (hopefully). But not always, with the chancers.
-
Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.
PLEASE BE SPACE RITUALS!!
Paddy
LOL, no. They're quite intensive to say the least! That's not to say that I couldn't do another. All the boards that go into it are currently available and I've even got a large enclosure spare and a 4th decal as I was on a run when I was doing those... See who gets this one:
(http://www.juansolo.demon.co.uk/misc/SpaceSmoker.jpg)
Appologies for completely derailing this thread by the way... *blushes*
No the only pedals that I seem to be able to shift with relative ease are Klones. We've got a good relationship with a bloke in Canada and we're going to have a few boards coming from them that we've had a say in how they'll turn out (they'll be commercial pedals over there). Essentially we were discussing (from a builders perspective) how to make the perfect Klone. Electronically it's still identical to the usual Klones. But we've got it so it's going to be compact, robust and easy to assemble. Looking forward to getting our hands on the prototype board for that one to see how it goes.
The theory is that it'll finally get us into the black on the pedal building (not sure that's ever happened) and pay for some powder coating gear so we can coat our own enclosures rather than having to buy them in. That's the idea anyhow.
Holy sheet you are killing me
-
Yeah absolutely. The things that made me suspicious about the Jan Ray were the price and the stuff written about it on its website- it almost sounded like a parody of a boutique pedal.
And yeah that's true about the strat/tele thing, but at least people selling slightly tweaked strats and teles aren't pretending they're something else- it's the pretending they've reinvented the wheel and charging $400 or $600 for a very slightly tweaked tubescreamer (or bluesbreaker, or whatever) that I have a problem with. If someone wants to spend $600 on a "better" tubescreamer, that's their prerogative- as long as the company making it is up-front that it's essentially a tweaked TS. The problem arises when the manufacturer pretends it's something else which you can't get elsewhere- in my opinion, that involves an element of deception or fraud.
And yeah the build quality thing can go either way- with the good guys, you're paying for better quality (hopefully). But not always, with the chancers.
Nail on the head. The sad fact is that there are unscrupulous peeps out there looking to make a quick buck along with enough people out there that believe the hype to throw money at them. As long as there is, this will continue.
-
Yeah :(
-
For my money I really like the ElectroHarmoniX range of pedals. Was sold on them when someone here posted a video clip of the Doctor Who theme reproduced using their pedals. Whether or not they are clones of this or that , I don't have the tech knowledge to say and to be honest , I don't care if they are or not because they keep pumping out really interesting sounding gear at wallet friendly prices , so I've never felt ripped off in any sense or disappointed with the build quality and durability, and no , there's no cheque in the post to me for saying this 8)
EH have been consistently one of the most innovative companies when it comes to pedal design going right back to the late 60s.
Back in the 70s their pedal were also much cheaper than other manufacturers.
Build quality was generally not that special though......
-
There is no guarantee that Booteek is better quality than Joyo - For example I have an HBE Power Screamer - the pot has gone south and a resistor has burnt out due to poor wiring on the 9v input (which was somewhat frightening). The diode selector switch works 7 times out of 10. On the other hand, the problem I have had no problems with the cheap as shiteee Joyo.
I've seen that burnt resistor problem in a load of HBE pedals.
Build quality pretty average to be honest.
-
Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.
How much does the powder coating gear cost?
We get stuff powder coated for about £1-2 per unit, and given the aggravation associated with doing the coating I would be surprised if it's worth buying the gear.
Not, of course, that I am discouraging anyone from buying some new tools.....
-
Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.
How much does the powder coating gear cost?
We get stuff powder coated for about £1-2 per unit, and given the aggravation associated with doing the coating I would be surprised if it's worth buying the gear.
Not, of course, that I am discouraging anyone from buying some new tools.....
Already got a compressor so about £200 for the gear and a toaster oven. Helpfully Cleggy is quite good a spraying also.
Cost isn't really the issue. Getting stuff when we need it is. Had some big delays of late and it's becoming a problem. Plus it'd be handy to be able to do them when we need them and just have a stash of raw enclosures to dip into.
-
Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.
How much does the powder coating gear cost?
We get stuff powder coated for about £1-2 per unit, and given the aggravation associated with doing the coating I would be surprised if it's worth buying the gear.
Not, of course, that I am discouraging anyone from buying some new tools.....
Already got a compressor so about £200 for the gear and a toaster oven. Helpfully Cleggy is quite good a spraying also.
Cost isn't really the issue. Getting stuff when we need it is. Had some big delays of late and it's becoming a problem. Plus it'd be handy to be able to do them when we need them and just have a stash of raw enclosures to dip into.
I can fully understand that; and more tools is good.
We got a flat bed engraver for exactly the same reasons (although it has now paid for itself).