Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: GuitarIv on September 07, 2013, 09:57:48 PM
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Cheers guys,
so since my financial situation as a student seems to be improving, I started thinking about a new amp, in fact I've done so for quite a while now but finally narrowed my options down to 2 heads. It's going to be either the Marshall JVM 205 or the 50 Watt Version of the EVH 5150 III.
Now I have some criteria regarding the amp: 50 watts, 2 channels (I like straight Clean/Distortion Heads), nothing uber expensive, something I can use in a band context but play at home as well, mids for the cut and something that can give me old school Thrash sounds when required.
From the huge amount of videos and samples I found online I lean more towards the JVM, however I never played the amp. I tested the 5150 III before and quite liked it although I found it to have a little bit too much gain for my tastes, but that may be due to the fact that I'm currently playing a Micro Terror boosted with a Digitech Bad Monkey at home and that combination has just enough distortion to let me play metal.
I will be getting a new cab as well and it's going to be a V30 equipped 4*12, the decision's down between the Marshall MR1960AV and the Orange PPC412.
I know I should test the JVM before I throw it into the equation, however as always it might not hurt to search for some additional opinions ^^
Now my main question regarding the JVM is: how much does it have in common with the infamous JCM 800? How is the quality of those newer Marshalls and does it still have that high mid cutting character and typical sound one associates with the brand? I'm no expert on amps, so someone who has some insight on building them could be very helpful.
The guitars I'm mainly going to use with the setup are going to be my Custom Strat with a Miracle Man/Sinner set that sounds quite transparent, cutting in the highs and mids and my Jackson DK2M with a Holydiver/Emerald set that has a warm, fat and huge sound. Right now I have the problem that my Peavey Valveking with the Laney GS412LA I use has waaaaaay too much highs, it's so overbearing at times it hurts in the ears. This is mainly due to the nature of the cab in combination with the Celestion Seventy 80s that are very scooped and treble heavy and the new tubes my VK got, they sound trebly, harsh and very unpleasing.
I know people might tell me I should just change tubes or get a new cab, but I'm about to make the next step towards getting my first "high quality" tube head, so I'm not willing to toy around with the VK (yet).
I don't know how much info I missed, this is quite a wall of text already, so sorry for that, hope someone can help me :)
Cheers!
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Left of field suggestion but if you've got an eye for a 5150 III I'd check out the Laney Ironheart, seemed to be a lot of amp for the cash if memory serves me well
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I would look at a (used) Orange Rockerverb too. Out of those two: EVH!
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The Orange PPC412 is a great cabinet but with V30s in general brace yourself for the mid spike! Also it doesn't have wheels, which can be a good thing sometimes, in terms of its connection with the floor (extra resonance) but at 50kg you'd better have good friends who can help you both ends of your journey to jams and gigs. One of my mates suggested stealing a shopping trolley from the supermarket carpark and using the wheels from that on a board dolly, and then sitting the cab on that, or alternatively bolting them to the cab permanently. Every time I think of this suggestion I laugh because I see Bubbles from Trailer Park Boys in my head. Apparently though if I did it I would not be the first ...
I'm quite happy with my Peavey 6534+ now. It's a monster though at 120W (so you almost never get the chance to get it out of that fizzy 0-1 range playing at home) and it takes some time to get used to the resonance and presence controls. With the Peavey 6505 cab you can get away with diming both if yiou are playing Slayer etc bit with the Orange PPC412 you need to back off on the presence definitely and with the resonance too if it is sitting directly on the floor on those skids without any wheels.
The other amp I considered was the EVH 5150 III. I've heard great things about, very few bad things. I've heard great things about the JVM too, but I've also read a few complaints about it.
I think there might be an issue with the effects loop on the JVM, I'm not sure, maybe google it. Maybe it was with the loop causing issues with ISP Decimators, because I was looking for info on those at one point and found a lot about in on the Marshall site. It might be to do with the adjustment level on the loop. Anyway if you do get one make sure you understand how that works.
I also considered the Laney Ironheart, back when I was seriously considering the new Laney Iommi (but prices on that here make it a pipe-dream), and I read a lot of good about the Ironheart
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I would go with the JVM without a second thought. In my opinion it's a much more versatile amp, plus I have tried both amps and the EVH took loads of tweaking to get "my" sound, but the JVM took me less than twenty seconds to dial in a great tone. Also with the JVM, you can get a rather nice sound at lower volumes, too.
I won't suggest any other amps, as I'm a little biased towards Jet City myself (which, by the way, are GREAT budget amps, in my opinion), and you've already narrowed it down to between two, heh. :wink:
But just in case curiosity takes you down that route:
http://www.jetcityamplificationstore.co.uk/ (http://www.jetcityamplificationstore.co.uk/)
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Regarding the EVH it is indeed an amazing amp, but it just seemed a bit too modern for my application or rather over the top. I already ruled out the Rockerverb and the Ironheart as Orange is a bit too mushy at times and the Ironheart isn't really the kind of thing I'm looking for.
I'm pretty much torn as I know if I get the EVH I will be on the safe side since I played it already, really liked it and know what to expect, but the Marshall seems to be easier to dial in (I like simple amps) and has the EL34 sound that get's you that amazing classic sound we all know and love when you plug in your Strat. I guess I will only know for sure once I find a store that has the JVM stock so I can try it out in real life :P
Nad: I heard great things about the Jet City range, might give them a go :)
AO: Yeah I know it can be a pain in the ass but if they sound good I'm willing to break my back hahaha
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I really like the sound of Jet City amps too
ps When did orange cabs get so expensive?!!! Personally I'd get a Zilla
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I got my PPC412 for $1200 local currency, which was only $100 more than the best price I had on a Marshall 1960AV at the time (end of financial year sale a few months ago). A friend of mine got a Krank Revolution 1 (a company that no longer exists and hence the warranty is useless) for half price a month ago and that was $1000, so the Orange cabs can be had for better prices than those, and certainly cheaper than an Engl Pro 412 V30 cab (although those are stereo).
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Both very good amps, but a somewhat different midrange and treble tonality. The Marshall is a bit harder and edgier, which I kind of like, the EVH a bit smoother.
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I would look at the Laney Ironheart 60 too. Good tone, lots of features and quite affordable.
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Right now I'm really tending more and more towards the Marshall, particularly since my favourite guitar player, Josh Middleton from Sylosis uses a modded JCM 800 and the band playing in E-Standard is a perfect example that you don't need the ultra modern sound and low tunings to sound heavy. I guess I will only find out by playing through a JVM. Thanks for all the opinions so far, cheers! :D
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Satchel from Steel Panther uses the EVH 5150 III :D
Rig Rundown - Satchel - Steel Panther Gear (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9kMlfsMtU#ws)
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I found this a while ago and I hope it helps. I'd go the JVM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipEInOh0Phw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipEInOh0Phw)
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On that video the EVH sounds very muffled.
I would want to A/B them through the same cabinet before choosing (if possible). I don't put a lot of faith in youtube videos, especially through my computer speakers
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Everything I ever heard (live or video) from the JVM sounded like the most pure absolute shiteE! Compressed, no dynamics, fizzy (think of a cr@ppy distortion pedal).
BTW since the JCM800 2203 marshal haven't done anything usefull IMO... maybe that's why 80% of their actual production are reissues or other "signature" amps based in reissues... gosh...
If you are stuck between these two I"d say go for the EVH even though I think a cab loaded with greenbacks or G12h30s would sound way better with it than V30s, but that's my taste.
Now if you want to expand, check out the new Randall RD50 head by Mike Fortin... Man, that sounds amazing in the videos and it's for the cheap (in the US it's cheaper than the 5153 50w).
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Buy yourself a new profile pic. It's soo irritating haha. That's all for free :P
Have you thought about looking at the Marshall JVMJS? The Satriani signature. Looks killer :)
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BTW since the JCM800 2203 marshal haven't done anything usefull IMO... maybe that's why 80% of their actual production are reissues or other "signature" amps based in reissues... gosh...
It just struck me that although I see plenty of them in shops I haven't seen a Marshall at a local gig for a long time, except for the odd JCM800 with touring bands. It might be that I spend too much time at metal and hardcore gigs, but what I tend to see here in Adelaide are Mesa Rectos (not cheap), Peaveys (again, not cheap, second-hand even not under $1000), Laneys, local hand-made amps called Woogie, and the occasional Randall or Krank. In fact the only gigging Marshall that comes to mind is a young punk guy who has one of the solid-state cheapies teamed up with the cheapest Epi SG (the bolt neck type with the batwing pickguard), and I suspect that was just because he got it cheap, and another friend offered me some cheap Marshall with an Ashton 4x12 cab for $500. The high-end Marshalls are simply not popular in the metal and punk scenes at all. On the other hand I see Marshall 4x12 cabs everywhere, especially the 1960AV.
Admittedly I haven't seen any EVH amps at gigs either. But it seems that Marshall has lost its 'metal' reputation around here. Or it might just be that in a price comparison they lose out. On the other hand I'm always surprised at the Meso Rectos I see around, because the prices for them are very high in this country. If I see one of those I immediately think that they either have a good paying job, sell drugs, or, even worse, do cover band gigs :D (a lot of cover bands get $1500 a night here)
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Admittedly I haven't seen any EVH amps at gigs either. But it seems that Marshall has lost its 'metal' reputation around here. Or it might just be that in a price comparison they lose out.
And funny you mentioned punk earlier, but most of the old punk rock bands used marshall amps... Toy Dolls, your nickname Agent Orange's Mike Palm (now he uses Crate amps if I'm not wrong), Sex Pistols, Ramones, and the list is vast...
For early metal, I think only Iron Maiden and Motorhead still uses Marshall amps (and the bad ones like the DSL and JMP-1 preamp) For new metal stuff, there's a lot of amps out there doing better tones, and many times, cheaper and MORE RELIABLE than the newer marshalls... I can't see why Marshall couldn't make a decent evolution from the plexi / 800 desing... Man, a lot of amp modders (Mike Fortin, Mike Soldano, Bogner, Egnater, Friedman and many others) did this very well and have built their name over modded marshalls.... But the creators couldn't make their baby to evolve... Sad, but...
I recon in the UK the american amps are expensive, but have you tried to import them from ebay or something? I dunno UK import policies, I'm just saying..... I did this with my gear in Brazil and I payed, after taxes, less than 1200USD for my 76' JMP head... If I ever get to find one in Brasil, it's going to cost at least 3500USD.
The new Randall by Mike fOrtin RD50H costs 599USD, a cheap amp in the US. Used peaveys aren't expensive also at the bay....
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Now I realized you're from down under Agent Orange :lol: :lol: :lol: sorry..
Mate, in this case, I think you're as $%&#ed as me with amp prices.... But maybe the import thing is still an option for ya.
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I was just talking about scene people in my home state, I know that in the '70s and '80s Marshalls were ubiquitous, especially in metal. In the early '90s that seemed to change. First Mesas, then Peaveys, then Randalls seemed to pop up around the place, and Marshall started to get a bad name because of some of the cheaper stuff they were producing. This might also be due to aggressive endorsement deals on the part of Marshall's competitors, and the fact that producers were looking for new sounds.
The point I was making is that while I seem to see a lot of Marshall 4x12 cabs around I don't see so many amps, except in the rock scene where some people have them, although quite a few of them seem to have gone for the Meso Rectos, which were a prestige/bling item for a time. Mesas are VERY expensive here, more expensive than Marshalls, so when someone wants to show off their money they buy a Triple Recto and an ESP (for some reason they are always $2k+, $4k+ for Hanneman ones). There might be some metal guy here playing a Kerry King Marshall now, but I don't go to as many metal gigs as I used to.
BTW, my screen name is based on the Sodom album, not the punk band, hence the picture of Frank 'Blackfire' Gosdzik as my current avatar and the album cover art when I first joined. 8)
On amp prices, we had a very strong dollar over the last year which fortuitously combined with the former Peavey distributor losing their deal, leading them to sell off all their stock at below cost prices. I got my Peavey 6534+ for $1300 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271068724214) ... the new distributor is not giving good prices to dealers at all, and a lot of people are refusing to stock them, giving Allans Music (the retail arm of the new distributor AMI) a monopoly once all old stock is gone from other shops. Full retail price is $2600 and Allans have them on sale for $2200 (http://www.allansbillyhyde.com.au/prod/PV3601030/Peavey_6534%E2%84%A2_Plus_120W_Guitar_Head_Amplifier.aspx) ... I think I did okay! I'm a very canny ebay buyer ;)
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So after watching lots of demos I'm still not any wiser, I will have to hit up a music store and test the JVM. One thing I noticed however is that the EVH increased in price :x
JDC: how could I forget Zilla? I think I've been gasing for a Super Fatboy ever since I followed Nolly and PeteyG of Red Seas Fire on Facebook
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Well, I've done quite a bit of research and listened to clips and read reviews on the Internet and now I have another problem: I'm very tempted to get myself a Jet City JCA50 Head. So I need your advice.
The Pros I found:
- Obviously the price; as a student my budget is limited and spending a lesser amount of money for a decent piece of gear is always a good thing
- Designed by Soldano; from my understanding those heads are modelled after the Hotrod and people seem to be quite happy with the sound
- No uber modern metal shiteeloads of gain; right now I'm playing a Micro Terror boosted with a Digitech Bad Monkey and that's perfectly fine, I prefer the sound of a boosted lower gain amp as long as it does what I need it to do
- Simple design; I like my things to be easy adjustable, when I turn a few knobs getting an instantly good sound is what I prefer opposed to the five billion knobs and options an amp like say the Mesa Boogie Mark V has. I also like to control the sound with my hands, it's all about using the controls on the guitar and picking technique for me
Cons:
- reading through the BKP Forum I've found some threads Nadzilla opened; Toe-Knee referred to certain reliability issues those amps have
- Really enough gain? Like mentioned before I don't need the heaps of distortion a 6505 produces, but it should be at least enough to do some more old school stuff and Death and Thrash Metal when boosted with a TS type pedal
- will this be just another cheap piece of gear before I decide I need something better/more expensive? I certainly won't let this turn into a G.A.S. related purchase, the low price combined with the good reviews just suggests that there might be a catch
So these are my thoughts. Hope you guys can help me out to make this decision easier for me. End of the month my paycheck will arrive, so I'm having that warm, fuzzy feeling inside of me once again, just like waiting for Santa to arrive with presents :lol:
Cheers!
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Don't forget Ceriatone, very nice handmade amps. Even nicer for those who live down under.
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I get by playing metal on a Peavey Vypyr 60 and Blackstar HT-5HR. The HT-5 gets me some nice tone and it's simple compared to the Vypyr and getting lost in all it's tones. But it's got dual rec, JSX and 6505. They are not the same as the real deal but good in their own way.
I'm now going around in circles of do I go for a 5150 III 50 watt as I do like them or go JVM 205. I do like tube distortion and I'm not too worried about running power tube too hard as I play at home and my Vypyr showed me how loud they can be. Or do I stick with what I have as it works well. Can't help but think maybe the grass is greener on the other side.
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- Really enough gain? Like mentioned before I don't need the heaps of distortion a 6505 produces, but it should be at least enough to do some more old school stuff and Death and Thrash Metal when boosted with a TS type pedal
As you wrote, that problem is easy to solve with a nice boost pedal. Suhr Kokoboost comes to mind ;)
The Jet City looks like a tempting alternative, I've been gassing fol the JCA22H for some time! Sounds like a killer amp.
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Hey dude,
Like Toe-Knee pointed out, there may be some reliability issues. I've had my JCA20H for a little while now and done a fair few full-volume practices with it at the practice room. The last time my band jammed, I started getting this little rattle at the end of certain notes, I'm not sure what that is just yet as I've not had the time to get it checked out or record the sound for our brainiacs here on the forum to analyse. :lol: But I'm hopeful it's something small and easily fixed.
Having said that, the quality of the sound you get for the price is simply phenomenal! I boost mine with a Bad Monkey and it sounds perfect. There's enough gain left over in the pedal and the gain channel of the amp that you could easily get a fully distorted Thrash sound if you ever wanted to, but for what I need it's perfectly gainy enough turned down pretty low.
Here's a quick clip of my rig:
https://soundcloud.com/nadzilla/amp-test-1-sm7b-bass-cut (https://soundcloud.com/nadzilla/amp-test-1-sm7b-bass-cut)
Plus, the UK now have a dedicated Jet City Amplification sales site! The guys are UBER helpful there, and very quick to reply to any questions.
http://www.jetcityamplificationstore.co.uk/ (http://www.jetcityamplificationstore.co.uk/)
Cheap as chips and a tone that rips! :wink:
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The 50h also has more gain than the 20h too. Although i seem to remember Nadzillas being modded.
Usually the 20h is the crunch channel that is on the 50/100w models then theres an additional lead channel.
the 22h also has the lead channel
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Aye mine was modded to basically be a 22H, with a foot-switchable crunch channel. I would personally go for the current JCA22H (or the 50H if you want more LOUDs).
I've got my eye on their 100HDM for my next big purchase.
That Jet City site is actually having a sale right now, and it was a couple of months ago when it was pointed out to me. I'm not sure when that's going to end, but CRAZY prices right now!
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Aye mine was modded to basically be a 22H, with a foot-switchable crunch channel. I would personally go for the current JCA22H (or the 50H if you want more LOUDs).
I've got my eye on their 100HDM for my next big purchase.
That Jet City site is actually having a sale right now, and it was a couple of months ago when it was pointed out to me. I'm not sure when that's going to end, but CRAZY prices right now!
I think the 50/100w ones are actually cheaper at thomann currently. But the 22h is cheaper at the jet city store
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Cheers guys (especially Toe-Knee and Nad) for the responses, I appreciate every input :)
The JCA50H is currently for sale at Thomann for under 300€ quid, so that would be a steal and that's exactly the reason I'm so tempted to get one. Only thing I need to clear up is: does this amp get the metal rhythm job done? I watched a Youtube video of a guy today where he was praising the Lead Sound of the head yet recommending a 5150 for rhythms, quote:
"careful. the JCA voicing is very very different from that of a recto or peavey. It's got a thick, compressed low end and lower midrange and the top end is smooth.
It doesn't bite in the upper mids and treble the way a marshall will and it doesn't have the upper end presence/sizzle (fizz for some) and tightness that the peavey's have.
These are great hard/modern rock amps though but lack the lower end clarity for metal that the peaveys have. They're way better for lead though vs the peaveys"
"if you're wanting to do straight metal, just buy a 5150. This amp has to try really hard to do metal and requires a boost."
"well, what I'm meaning is that the JCA has a very thick/compressed lower end and lower midrange. That tight clean chugging for rhythm work isn't really what it does too well. There are mods you can do to help it out but at the end of the day, it's voiced like a soldano and they've always been much better lead amps than metal rhythm amps. Try one with a boost before you commit financially if you can."
So how much truth is there behind this statements? I'm really trying to assure I'm not gonna make a wrong purchase just because G.A.S. has gotten the better part of me once again :P
Cheers!
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Get the EVH 50W ...
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I'd kind of agree with that statement in that you'll need to give it a boost, but the Bad Monkey should be more than enough to get it there. If you have any kind of EQ pedal, that might help too if you just want to shape the tone a little more. My signal chain includes the Boss GE7 and a Bad Monkey, they're the only pedals I need, really. If I had the money, I wouldn't hesitate to go and buy one of the Marshall JVM range, most probably the 205H, as even with just the two channels it's a very versatile beast and there's no doubt about its reliability and robust electronics. But, like you say, you're on a budget, and you already have a pedal that will do the TS9 thing, so the JCA50H should do exactly what you want it to. :)
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Cheers guys (especially Toe-Knee and Nad) for the responses, I appreciate every input :)
The JCA50H is currently for sale at Thomann for under 300€ quid, so that would be a steal and that's exactly the reason I'm so tempted to get one. Only thing I need to clear up is: does this amp get the metal rhythm job done? I watched a Youtube video of a guy today where he was praising the Lead Sound of the head yet recommending a 5150 for rhythms, quote:
"careful. the JCA voicing is very very different from that of a recto or peavey. It's got a thick, compressed low end and lower midrange and the top end is smooth.
It doesn't bite in the upper mids and treble the way a marshall will and it doesn't have the upper end presence/sizzle (fizz for some) and tightness that the peavey's have.
These are great hard/modern rock amps though but lack the lower end clarity for metal that the peaveys have. They're way better for lead though vs the peaveys"
"if you're wanting to do straight metal, just buy a 5150. This amp has to try really hard to do metal and requires a boost."
"well, what I'm meaning is that the JCA has a very thick/compressed lower end and lower midrange. That tight clean chugging for rhythm work isn't really what it does too well. There are mods you can do to help it out but at the end of the day, it's voiced like a soldano and they've always been much better lead amps than metal rhythm amps. Try one with a boost before you commit financially if you can."
So how much truth is there behind this statements? I'm really trying to assure I'm not gonna make a wrong purchase just because G.A.S. has gotten the better part of me once again :P
Cheers!
Is there nowhere local that you can try one? From what i remember the rhythm sounds was pretty damn good. As your quote said it just isnt fizzy and has wallop in the low mids :D
I'm 100% certain that with a boost you will have no issues whatsoever or with a few simple mods that most techs can do for you with ease you wont even need the boost.
But as with every amp I would suggest trying it first.
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On what the guy said regarding 5150s I'm not sure about them but if they are similar to the 5150 II I can say that the Peavey 6534+ is better for leads than the 5150 II, having much more mid-range cut (this is comparing two amps with no pedals on the same settings). I dare say that the EVH 5150 III is an improvement on the Peavey 5150 II in this respect too.
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Cheers guys (especially Toe-Knee and Nad) for the responses, I appreciate every input :)
The JCA50H is currently for sale at Thomann for under 300€ quid, so that would be a steal and that's exactly the reason I'm so tempted to get one. Only thing I need to clear up is: does this amp get the metal rhythm job done? I watched a Youtube video of a guy today where he was praising the Lead Sound of the head yet recommending a 5150 for rhythms, quote:
"careful. the JCA voicing is very very different from that of a recto or peavey. It's got a thick, compressed low end and lower midrange and the top end is smooth.
It doesn't bite in the upper mids and treble the way a marshall will and it doesn't have the upper end presence/sizzle (fizz for some) and tightness that the peavey's have.
These are great hard/modern rock amps though but lack the lower end clarity for metal that the peaveys have. They're way better for lead though vs the peaveys"
"if you're wanting to do straight metal, just buy a 5150. This amp has to try really hard to do metal and requires a boost."
"well, what I'm meaning is that the JCA has a very thick/compressed lower end and lower midrange. That tight clean chugging for rhythm work isn't really what it does too well. There are mods you can do to help it out but at the end of the day, it's voiced like a soldano and they've always been much better lead amps than metal rhythm amps. Try one with a boost before you commit financially if you can."
So how much truth is there behind this statements? I'm really trying to assure I'm not gonna make a wrong purchase just because G.A.S. has gotten the better part of me once again :P
Cheers!
there probably is some truth to that. they have a load of gain, but as you said, seem to be more voiced for leads than rhythms, they're pretty smooth-sounding.
You can sort of get round it a couple of ways. I use a more transparent boost pedal with it, which cuts the mids a bit- on the cheap a digitech screamin blues works well. then i kick on a ts- or sd1-type od pedal for leads. Just to clarify- I'm not sure you need a boost. With humbuckers it has loads of gain. Just I prefer the sound of most amps nowadays with the gain rolled back and hit with a boost instead (I'm playing at low home volumes). To give you some idea, when I use those boosts, I'm running the od channel's gain on 3. :lol:
Judicious speaker selection would probably help, too- i use eminence v12s which are kinda middy, so that doesn't help so much, but I like them because they tame the amp's brightness a bit, too. But i suspect something more scooped would help with the rhythm tones.
It's really up to you. Like you, I took a chance because I couldn't pass them at that price (and I really liked the soldano avenger I'd tried and figured this might get part of the way there on the cheap). But it's really your call, only you can decide whether the price is good enough that it's worth the risk.
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Just have 5 minutes available so I'm gonna sumarise my thoughts real quick after reading through everything: The problem I currently have with my Valveking is that it sounds way too harsh and trebly which may be due to the recently changed tubes (old ones blew up, the new ones are probably something cheap) or the Laney Cab and it's scooped nature, so the JC50 might be the right way to go. My Strat also sounds very bright, snappy and tight and in combination with the Miracle Man it might work. I always turn down the gain on the amp and boost it with a TS Type Pedal, so right now I'm thinking I might just take a shot in the dark and grab the amp for 300 quid - after all Thomann has a money back guarantee :D
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Maybe upgrade the cab first and see if that improves things?
I have an Orange PPC412 and that is VERY midrangey due to the four Celestion V30s, but that might be what you want. I am actually thinking of pulling two speakers out and installing Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in an X pattern with them to calm down the mid spike of the V30s. The Swamp Thangs are apparently very scooped with a big bottom and top, and compliment the V30s well. It might be that you just need a couple of V30s in your cab if it is a 4x12. I have heard that this trick does not work so well in a 2x12 though. Also if the Laney cab is particle board rather than ply it might not be as beneficial.
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don't think you have to worry..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN9xduiMmvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN9xduiMmvw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAXos32BCc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAXos32BCc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7PHh_aIwQY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7PHh_aIwQY)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK72sO8aNwI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK72sO8aNwI)
unless of course those aren;t the characteristics you're looking for.
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Maybe upgrade the cab first and see if that improves things?
I have an Orange PPC412 and that is VERY midrangey due to the four Celestion V30s, but that might be what you want. I am actually thinking of pulling two speakers out and installing Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in an X pattern with them to calm down the mid spike of the V30s. The Swamp Thangs are apparently very scooped with a big bottom and top, and compliment the V30s well. It might be that you just need a couple of V30s in your cab if it is a 4x12. I have heard that this trick does not work so well in a 2x12 though. Also if the Laney cab is particle board rather than ply it might not be as beneficial.
The problem in mixing celestions and eminences is the sensibility.... the eminences usually lie at 99-101db range and the V30 is at 99db... If you get a 101db range speaker, there's the risk of covering the V30 in volume, even though if they are different in tone spectrum, in other words, maybe you'll get more swamp thang than you'd like to... Don't know the swamp thang range, just saying... The G12T-75 works nice with V30s too.... ;)
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Maybe upgrade the cab first and see if that improves things?
I have an Orange PPC412 and that is VERY midrangey due to the four Celestion V30s, but that might be what you want. I am actually thinking of pulling two speakers out and installing Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in an X pattern with them to calm down the mid spike of the V30s. The Swamp Thangs are apparently very scooped with a big bottom and top, and compliment the V30s well. It might be that you just need a couple of V30s in your cab if it is a 4x12. I have heard that this trick does not work so well in a 2x12 though. Also if the Laney cab is particle board rather than ply it might not be as beneficial.
The problem in mixing celestions and eminences is the sensibility.... the eminences usually lie at 99-101db range and the V30 is at 99db... If you get a 101db range speaker, there's the risk of covering the V30 in volume, even though if they are different in tone spectrum, in other words, maybe you'll get more swamp thang than you'd like to... Don't know the swamp thang range, just saying... The G12T-75 works nice with V30s too.... ;)
Generally you are safe with a 3dB difference in efficiency.
I happily ran a 102dB Manowar with a V30 thats 100dB from memory with no issues. But as you said the different frequencies generally fill in the gaps which is the whole point of mixing speakers IMHO the Man O War was scooped with chunky yet tight lows and nice sizzle in the highs whilst the v30 provided the mids but the V30s flabby low end was covered up nicely.
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I've read good reports on these in 'X-pattern' but not so good with the 2x12 ... just going on what people have said from using them. I've also heard that the G12T-75s work well.
Like having two cabs in one!
I find that the all V30s cab makes the presence of the Peaveys sound quite harsh. Also it would free up a couple of V30s to be used somewhere else where they could do some good. I've heard that the Peavey Classic 30, for instance, can be transformed from a good amp into a great one with a speaker change to a V30 instead of the Blue Marvel. I've considered getting one of those amps if I can find one at the right price, to have something that is not 'uber br00tz' like the 6534+ or just straight-up poxy like my Roland Cube, or clapped out like my old teal stripe Peavey Bandit.
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Maybe upgrade the cab first and see if that improves things?
I have an Orange PPC412 and that is VERY midrangey due to the four Celestion V30s, but that might be what you want. I am actually thinking of pulling two speakers out and installing Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in an X pattern with them to calm down the mid spike of the V30s. The Swamp Thangs are apparently very scooped with a big bottom and top, and compliment the V30s well. It might be that you just need a couple of V30s in your cab if it is a 4x12. I have heard that this trick does not work so well in a 2x12 though. Also if the Laney cab is particle board rather than ply it might not be as beneficial.
The problem in mixing celestions and eminences is the sensibility.... the eminences usually lie at 99-101db range and the V30 is at 99db... If you get a 101db range speaker, there's the risk of covering the V30 in volume, even though if they are different in tone spectrum, in other words, maybe you'll get more swamp thang than you'd like to... Don't know the swamp thang range, just saying... The G12T-75 works nice with V30s too.... ;)
no worries about mixing, eminence ratings are optimistic.
Obviously you have to mix speakers which complement each other in terms of tone, though- I haven't tried a swamp thang with a v30 (though I have both here in different stereo cabs, just never got round to trying that combo :lol: ). Agreed that g12t75 is a nice mix with a v30.
Though if he's buying on thomann, the handiest thing to do would likely be to just pick up the harley benton g212 vintage which already has v30s and which is about £160. That's not gonna cost you much more than upgrading the laney cab, and it's plywood (dunno what the laney is, it may well be ply, too).
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With regard to thommans harley benton cabs they say they're plywood but the unloaded 1x12 i bought had a plywood baffle board, the rest being mdf. I couldn't be arsed doing anything about it as it wasn't dear but it's a bit naughty of thomman. I'll bet the 2x12 is the same.
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no the 2x12 seems to be plywood (at least as far as I can identify these things, I wouldn't put money on my ability to differentiate different types of wood and particleboard :lol: )
But I agree that that's a bit naughty regarding the 1x12.
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So there's an update:
I played both the JCA22H and the Marshall JVM205 today in a music store and thus have now a real life reference regarding all three amps (provided that the JCA50 is similar in voicing to the 22H).
What I experienced with the Jet City is a thick, warm and chunky overdrive with a saturation that reminds me of the sound of the Holydiver (if I had to compare the amp to a pickup). Now I know why people round here have said that it differs to the classic modern distortion one associates with the 6505 range. I must say I like it, but I'm still not quite sure if I should go for it...
The JVM sounded quite nasty and had that typical Marshall roar and grit with an acceptable clean sound. I boosted the amp with a Digitech Bad Monkey and the Overdrive Channel on the Orange mode delivered more than enough gain. Only thing I found a bit disturbing was a certain fizz in the highs the amp was producing.
Opinions are welcome :)
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not much help i can give, unfortunately, i've only tried the 50 watt jca and the jvm410 (and the jvm i tried was ages ago, can't remember too much about it).
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What I experienced with the Jet City is a thick, warm and chunky overdrive with a saturation that reminds me of the sound of the Holydiver (if I had to compare the amp to a pickup).
I don't know about the 22H, but on my 20H, I find I have to keep the Master volume below 7, because anything higher than that and it thickens and basses right up very very quickly, and it's harder to control with the Bad Monkey treble knob. The 50w would give you more volume to play with before you get to that point, assuming the Master on that does the same as on the 20H.
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Between the 5150 and the JVM, I'd have to say the JVH too because it's far more versatile. Of course if you never, ever turn the gain off or down then maybe the 5150. I find the 5150 tones to be generally pretty harsh sounding though, and I do agree they're a tweaking nightmare.
I'm really not familiar with Jet City amplification so I can't say much here but I will say if the biggest drawback is that it requires a boost to get higher gain, don't let that be a detractor. There's plenty of boost options out there today, so pick up a few and find which one you want (or swap them out for different sounds).
The JCA50H has 6L6's which means it should have more low end and remain more defined at higher volumes but it won't get the same sounds when cranked as EL84s either. For that reason, 6L6's are generally preferred by many metal players looking for very heavy tones, but they don't get the same tube saturation either. If you liked the JCA22H as it sounds like you did, my advice would be to just get that amp. I've thrown boosts into amps far cleaner than that to get the kind of distortion I was after, so I'm fairly confident you'll be fine.
I'm not a fan of modern day Marshalls at all -- too fizzy sounding. Generally, Marshalls since the JCM 800 vertical inputs don't do it for me anymore with few exceptions, so if you didn't like the JVM I understand. Also, most of them aren't really voiced for extreme metal out of the box. The newer ones try to do everything but don't do any one thing really good at all. Do remember that most of the Marshalls in metal are JCM800s, and 95% of those have been heavily modified as well to get the sounds that they do.
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I'm very thankfull for all the input you guys have given me so far, now in end G.A.S. has once again gotten the better part of me. I just placed an order at Thomann yesterday and transferred the money today, it's going to be the JCA50H in the end. For 300 bucks this is just a steal and after reading through a lot of internet forums about the amp it seems like those are very user friendly when it comes down to mods and things that can be done to the circuit. I read DMoneys thread with the JCA22H as well and that pretty much convinced me. This might be the right amp for me to finally get into modding (besides doing solder jobs on my guitars) and I'm very stoked and looking forward for the package to arrive. Gonna keep you updated and report back as soon as it arrives and I have put it through it's paces :)
Cheers!
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Oh very nice. I assume you got the head and not the combo?
Anyway I am really looking forward to hearing more on this one. I am very tempted to get the 50 combo sometime in the future.
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^ ^ Nice :D
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Hope it rocks!
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Grrr, I hate my bank. I transferred the money on Monday and it still hasn't reached the Thomann Account, seems like I'll have to wait till next week until the Amp arrives. Anyway, I'll keep you guys updated and post a review as soon as the Head arrives (yup Kiichi, I ordered the head) :D
Anyway, right now I still have the problem that my Laney Cab with the Celestion Seventy 80's probably still won't suit my tastes, so I'm still thinking about a matching cab. As much as I'd like to order either a custom Zilla Superfatboy or an Orange PPC212 I'm looking for a budget solution, so I thought about this Palmer 2*12 with Vintage 30s:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pcab212v30.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pcab212v30.htm)
Read and heard only good things about the brand and heard it live (loaded with Eminence V128s, Toe-Knee praised these as better sounding V30s) so I guess the cab will do. Still better than the Harley Benton I guess :P
Cheers
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Grrr, I hate my bank. I transferred the money on Monday and it still hasn't reached the Thomann Account, seems like I'll have to wait till next week until the Amp arrives. Anyway, I'll keep you guys updated and post a review as soon as the Head arrives (yup Kiichi, I ordered the head) :D
I find paying through Paypal seems to be immediate.
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If you like the sound of open back cabs the Orange PPC412-OB seems okay in price. I'm guessing sound would be less directional and maybe less punchy.
Yeah I always use Paypal. Banks can take forever
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I'm certainly going for a closed back option, I like the feeling of pressure and pumping air whilst palm muting :D
Yeah, sooner or later I'll need paypal. Banks are bitches.
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Grrr, I hate my bank. I transferred the money on Monday and it still hasn't reached the Thomann Account, seems like I'll have to wait till next week until the Amp arrives. Anyway, I'll keep you guys updated and post a review as soon as the Head arrives (yup Kiichi, I ordered the head) :D
Anyway, right now I still have the problem that my Laney Cab with the Celestion Seventy 80's probably still won't suit my tastes, so I'm still thinking about a matching cab. As much as I'd like to order either a custom Zilla Superfatboy or an Orange PPC212 I'm looking for a budget solution, so I thought about this Palmer 2*12 with Vintage 30s:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pcab212v30.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pcab212v30.htm)
Read and heard only good things about the brand and heard it live (loaded with Eminence V128s, Toe-Knee praised these as better sounding V30s) so I guess the cab will do. Still better than the Harley Benton I guess :P
Cheers
I've heard that those Palmer cabs are really well made and are very focused and punchy sounding.
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those palmers aren't plywood (when they came out I emailed to ask). Whether that means they sound bad, I dunno, I haven't tried them, but yeah. The harley benton g212vintage is plywood and has v30s, for less money.
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I'm not up on different speaker types, but I tried a shed-load of 4x12 and 2x12 cabs including Orange, Marshall, Mesa, Engl etc, but I actually found that the cab Jet City recommends for their heads got me the best sound. I reckon they're on to something...
http://www.thomann.de/gb/jet_city_amplification_24s.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/jet_city_amplification_24s.htm)
This is what I have, my JCA20H sounds amazing through it.
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I'll find out first what I feel is lacking with the Seventy 80's and decide then if I'll go for Vintage 30's or an other kind of speaker/cab :)
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I'll find out first what I feel is lacking with the Seventy 80's and decide then if I'll go for Vintage 30's or an other kind of speaker/cab :)
From what I gather, Seventy 80s are like the budget Classic leads but they have more of a drop off on the high frequencies. When I was looking for new speakers, some people said stay far away from the cheaper Seventy 80s, but some people liked them. I got the Classic Leads and I do like them a lot.
You will want to be sure to crank your treble up a little and your presence up quite a bit more than normal with those speakers. Hope that helps.
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I have seventy 80's in my cab which I run a Blackstar HT-5 through. I have to have the treble up and I'm boosting the mid's or else it's a bit too dark. I think that's a combination of the amp and speakers.
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That's funny since my Valveking is way too trebly sounding right now unto the point where I have the highs on the amp dialed almost all the way down and the presence never over half. I will only be able to tell once the Jet City arrives (sent out today, hooray!) and I had the chance to A/B the two amps.
p.s.: Dammed amp tech. Seems like the tubes he put in are some cr@ppy and cheap treble heavy ones. (the sound got annoying after the tubes got swapped some months ago...)
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That's funny since my Valveking is way too trebly sounding right now unto the point where I have the highs on the amp dialed almost all the way down and the presence never over half. I will only be able to tell once the Jet City arrives (sent out today, hooray!) and I had the chance to A/B the two amps.
p.s.: Dammed amp tech. Seems like the tubes he put in are some cr@ppy and cheap treble heavy ones. (the sound got annoying after the tubes got swapped some months ago...)
When you get the new amp, maybe they'll be much better. I've talked to a few people who like those speakers, and some who don't either. But not everyone likes Classic Leads either so I really don't know how they compare.
Bad tubes can ruin an amp.
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I've read good things about Classic Lead 80 paired with a Vintage 30 in a 212 cab.
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I'd take a JCA over a JVM or EVH anyday PDT_003
you could put EL34's in it, if you adjust the bias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBAxzsFwzx8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBAxzsFwzx8)
seems like it might require a small bias mod, though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Az4Q5_DH0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Az4Q5_DH0)
the new fortin designed randall diavlo models are killer as well
hard to be if you want a sightly more aggressive sound
and they are extremely articulate amps and very cheap
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I'd be a little cautious about using EL34's in place of 6L6 types valves. EL34's use a lot more current from the filament wind of the power transformer. If the PT isn't spec'd to handle that then you risk damaging the amp. Jet City will probably be able to give you an idea of how much risk is involved. Bias voltage is one of a couple considerations.
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I'd be a little cautious about using EL34's in place of 6L6 types valves. EL34's use a lot more current from the filament wind of the power transformer. If the PT isn't spec'd to handle that then you risk damaging the amp. Jet City will probably be able to give you an idea of how much risk is involved. Bias voltage is one of a couple considerations.
If you change tubes, I'd always recommend taking it to a tech, period.
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If you change tubes, I'd always recommend taking it to a tech, period.
I wouldn't go to the same tech who put in those cheap tubes though!
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Well, the Jet City finally arrived, here's my NAD thread:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30778.0
Cheers! :D