Strike!!!

[JDC]

On top of all this I found out today the degree I'll be study for an NHS job is more intensive and time consuming than most other degrees. Now I won't able to drink so much and attempt to sleep around!!!

[Afghan Dave]

What is the justification for the state to pay Child Benefit at all?

[Twinfan]

Because they can't withdraw it now it's there, or face the massive uprising it would cause...

[Afghan Dave]

Because they can't withdraw it now it's there, or face the massive uprising it would cause...

Spot on!  :)

It's a stupid benefit that is massively unfair but no one could EVER challenge it.

The sad fact is that the entire welfare state is a Ponzi scheme which sells out the liberty of future generations for the benefit of current voters. The most politically volatile demographic are the baby boomer generation and f**k with their sense of entitlement at your peril.

The young cannot afford housing - have to pay massively for degrees their parents got for free - have no prospect of a pension... etc.

BUT - try to rebalance this injustice by building new homes, means testing tax credits/allowances/benefits for equity rich older homeowners/pensioners and they will rise up and hang you from the gallows.

They truely "never had it so good"... and continue to live longer and better than ANY human in history ... sustained and made possible only by selling the next generation down the river.

[Roobubba]

Because they can't withdraw it now it's there, or face the massive uprising it would cause...

Spot on!  :)

It's a stupid benefit that is massively unfair but no one could EVER challenge it.

The sad fact is that the entire welfare state is a Ponzi scheme which sells out the liberty of future generations for the benefit of current voters. The most politically volatile demographic are the baby boomer generation and f**k with their sense of entitlement at your peril.

The young cannot afford housing - have to pay massively for degrees their parents got for free - have no prospect of a pension... etc.

BUT - try to rebalance this injustice by building new homes, means testing tax credits/allowances/benefits for equity rich older homeowners/pensioners and they will rise up and hang you from the gallows.

They truely "never had it so good"... and continue to live longer and better than ANY human in history ... sustained and made possible only by selling the next generation down the river.

These are the same generation that revered the Beatw@ts.
Shotgun to the face required for all Beatles fans.
I rest my case.
Roo

PS please never let me get in a position of authority haha

[dave_mc]

while i'd agree the baby boomers had it/have it pretty good, personally I'd rather ensure the current generation gets it as good as well. plenty of those things could be paid for (or at least paid for better than currently) if we rearranged what we were willing to spend money on.

also there are plenty of things the baby boomers didn't have that good, growing up in austerity just after the war etc., not to mention we have better medical care and technology now.

i also don't think it's fair to blame baby boomers for having it good and wanting to keep it that way. plenty of them would want us to have it too.

^ i think they liked telecasters too, roo  :P

[Johnny Mac]

Speaking as someone who hasn't had a pay rise in 4 years and doesn't get any kind of pension (unless I organise and pay for it completely on my own), I have very little sympathy.  ;)

My pays gone down. Before that it hadn't gone up in 5 years. I get up between 4:00 and 5:00am and work until 6:00-6:30pm for peanuts now. What's a pension? The country has more debt than it can cope with and these people think they're entitled to more. Which has to be paid for by the private  sector. Plus the £ has gone down in value so why shouldn't they be asked to pay more.  They not getting much sympathy from me or most of the country.

The way things work in this country is far too complicated for it to continue like this. Things need to be simplified in some way but it won't happen.

[dave_mc]

(a) My pays gone down. Before that it hadn't gone up in 5 years. I get up between 4:00 and 5:00am and work until 6:00-6:30pm for peanuts now. What's a pension? (b) The country has more debt than it can cope with and these people think they're entitled to more. (c) Which has to be paid for by the private  sector. (d) Plus the £ has gone down in value so why shouldn't they be asked to pay more.  (e) They not getting much sympathy from me or most of the country.

(a) that sucks :( Personally you have my sympathies, but why i should when you have no sympathy for the public sector is another question ;)

(b) that's not true, they're striking because what they had been promised has been taken away

(c) that's a massive over-simplification. the private sector, i imagine, would make a heck of a lot less money if there were no roads, no people being educated, no healthcare system, etc. etc. etc.

(d) does that have anything to do with it? if people are paid in pounds that's not really going to affect it. it'll affect what you can buy, but not teh actual amount you're paid.

(e) didn't teh daily mail take down a poll on its website because a massive majority agreed with teh strikers? that's what i heard, anyway :lol:

[Johnny Mac]

I dont want your sympathy! So the fact the pound is worth less has no effect whatsoever on investments made for pensions does it? I can't see how it can. Plus there is no interest rate to speak of. The futures exchange invests money from private pensions to create wealth to pay them so the public ones must work like that to a degree.
If they have been told something and now are being treated differently I would say that is som
ething to do with the current financial situation. You can't just pretend it's not happening and it has no effect on you.
Most wealth IS created in the private sector and it does Pay for the public sector.
I don't read the Daily Mail so I wouldn't know. So what if it did. Its not an opinion of the working population.
Plus Brown plundered private pensions when he was in power. I dont remember Unison sticking up for workers effected by that theft.

[Twinfan]

I'm with Jonny.  So what if something was 'promised' - things change and you have to adapt to new environments.  The private sector has changed its pension stance to reflect the changed financial situation, so I don't see why the public sector shouldn't too.

The public sector doesn't generate any income, and only accounts for approx 20% of the UK workforce.  The private sector makes the money and funds the public sector via taxes.  Therefore, I very much doubt the majority of the UK population supported the strikes.

The public sector strikers should be thankful for the fact they still have a job and a pension right now, and if they don't like the new arrangements they can either a) put up and stop moaning about it or b) find themselves another job they they ARE happy with.

[Roobubba]

The difference between promised in this case for the public sector and the private sector is that the private sector wouldn't have promised something they couldn't afford.
Unfortunate, but true.

[nfe]

Plus Brown plundered private pensions when he was in power. I dont remember Unison sticking up for workers effected by that theft.

I see things like this mentioned on forums a lot and it's extremely silly - up there with "Unison didn't make a fuss when Ken Livingstone said bankers should be shot!" after the knickers-in-a-twist farce because that bigoted cretin Clarkson said something stupid again. Unison have no mandate to speak out on behalf of private sector workers.

The public sector strikers should be thankful for the fact they still have a job and a pension right now, and if they don't like the new arrangements they can either a) put up and stop moaning about it or b) find themselves another job they they ARE happy with.

Back to this? C'mon Dave. It's hard to get work just now, not remotely simple to wander into something else. So you're essentially saying - Any working conditions, however shit, and however much you're done over by your boss, is fine. You'll just have to take it on the chin 'cause you've no option.

That's the whole point that unions exist, to stop workers without another option getting abused.

[Twinfan]

Well my old final salary pension was 'promised' and supposedly secure, but the company found a loophole as it was a) costing far too much and b) wasn't in line with pension provisions in other countries.  They changed it.

People need to realise that just because you had it yesterday, it doesn't automatically mean you can have it today.

[Twinfan]

And yes nfe, unless your boss is breaking a law they have the right to change the world around you.  That's why they're the boss.  They run things, not you.

[nfe]

And the workforce have every right to refuse to work en mass. They're not breaking the law either (so long as they're not police, obviously).