'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.

[Dmoney]

Same deal with amps, you can get a vintage british amp like Roost, Carlboro, Laney, Selmer, Soundshiteeey for stupidly low money. It's only really certain Hiwatts and Marshalls that have an inflated price. And these amps are total $%&#ing beasts and are 'handwired' (another buzz word that pisses me off). Have Partridge's, point to point or turretboard, chasis mounted valve-sockets etc etc... all things that are used as a huge markup and buzzwords to inflate the cost. Any british amp pre 1975 is about as 'boutique' as it gets.

Anyway, I think I'm done for now  8)

I thought 'handwired' meant wired...by HAND, it's not really a con or buzzword just to sell amps

Usually when people see 'hand wired' they probably think of Turret boards, Eyelet boards, or real point to point and exclude Printed Circuit Board construction. However, they can all be made by hand, without the aid of machines, likewise you can have hand assembled parts in an amp that also include machine populated and wave soldered parts. A company's marketing team might blur the line between 'hand wired' and 'hand assembled' since a lot of amps will require some hand assembly to a varying degree.

[Twinfan]

No, pure guess work which does infact make me an asshole, however, I have owned a bunch of nice fiddles that I've posted pics of here in the past and this is the kinda thing that jars me "I want the maximum touch sensitivity that I can get, and the Collection is fantastic for that, it just has a touch 'more' of everything a USA PRS has", sure I'm down with that 100% but "if your playing style and ears are sensitive enough to appreciate it". It ain't gonna be anymore special than the Briggs, Fibenare, blah blah blah I've owned and is pretty much what I expect to hear from an owner of a £14k guitar. I know I'm gonna come across as a total tw@t if I continue and I don't want to. When an earlier poster said you owned one I was a bit worried about you reading it and getting offended haha :)

Hey, I don't offend easily ( :) ) and I know I'm very much in the minority when it comes to gear and my experiences.

I'm not saying my guitar is any more special than a Huber/Briggs/Feline etc, it's just more special to me than any of those and that's why I could justify buying it.  As Philly and others have said, it's very much personal preference and what you want from a guitar.

My comment about "if your playing style and ears are sensitive enough to appreciate it" wasn't supposed to come across as snobbish, that's not what I intended.  I was trying to say that some folks are cursed/blessed with a sensitivity to all the tiny nuances of a guitar/amp and every little change is either good/bad.  To others, these tiny details get lost and they can't see what all the fuss is about.  I can't explain or justify my perception to them, and likewise they can't tell me it all sounds the same - we just see the same things differently.

Unfortunately I can spot the tiniest of differences in guitars, so nothing was ever quite good enough for me - I could always pick fault in some aspect of the tone/playing experience/sustain etc.  The Collection V is truly faultless in my eyes, and so I had to have it.  I wouldn't trade it for any other musical instrument on the planet.

[TeeBee]

The term 'Boutique' is unhelpful when talking about guitar amps.  I have a hand made amp, a Wienbrock Gaucho, designed and made by James Healey of Healey Amplification Ltd. which to me blows any 'major' manufacturer amp I have ever played out of the window - no Marshall, Blackstar, Orange, Mesa Boogie, Peavey etc. can compare with what it can do,  It was well worth the money and has made me enjoy playing guitar and improve as a musician no end.

[Philly Q]

I have a hand made amp, a Wienbrock Gaucho, designed and made by James Healey of Healey Amplification Ltd.

A familiar name - he used to be a regular, if infrequent, visitor to this forum.

[GuitarIv]

I don't know how much I can actually contribute here, fact is I only own one (quite new) piece of really expensive gear: my Custom Strat I got as a gift from my father for my birthday.

The guitar feels just right in my hands. Although it has a wider radius and rather vintage specs compared to the instruments one uses for heavy genres I always find myself going back to it. You can really tell the guitar was built by hand and no corners where cut. The last time I played a 3k Gibson it sounded and felt like a 400 bucks Indonesia made Ibanez to me, heck I own one of these and it's still better than most Gibsons that cost two grands or more! (Sorry Philly  :lol:)

I just recently got my last guitar, at least I decided that I won't be buying any more. It's my bassists Made in Japan Jackson DK2M (I think it was the last of the line Jackson still built in Japan) as he wasn't playing it anymore whatsoever and I felt bad that such a nice instrument would stand around doing nothing but collecting dust. It's a great instrument and cost him new 700€ - rather cheap, innit? I even played a made in U.S.A. Jackson Soloist and although it was a great instrument the difference isn't obvious after setting up the DK2M and giving it some TLC. Also my 1993 Jackson Fusion Pro blows everything out of the water and I payed 400 bucks for it used. That guitar is 20 years old and still sounds and plays better than most new stuff I tried.

The point I'm trying to make here is that I don't think one needs to spend fortunes of money on stuff, there's lots of cheaper (and used) things that can deliver, and at the end of the day one solid instrument and rig can be more than enough. Also the feeling and connection one can make with an instrument is a big part of the game and as Philly pointed out that thing is totally subjective. Guitars others loathe are sometimes guitars I like and vice versa :)

[Twinfan]

The point I'm trying to make here is that I don't think one needs to spend fortunes of money on stuff, there's lots of cheaper (and used) things that can deliver, and at the end of the day one solid instrument and rig can be more than enough.

Of course you're right, all anyone needs is something that can make a noise to make music.  Look at Seasick Steve with his one stringed Biddly-Bo!

However, what works for you and what you feel is "good enough" wil vary widely from from what Philly Q, myself, Joe Bonamassa or Mark Tremonti think is good enough for the job.  Therefore, one side can't chastise another just because they believe in something different.

[Lew]

:) are they a limited run? So they will at-least hold or maybe even increase in value?

Jackson Pros are badass, used to have a red one  8)

However, what works for you and what you feel is "good enough" wil vary widely from from what Philly Q, myself, Joe Bonamassa or Mark Tremonti think is good enough for the job.  Therefore, one side can't chastise another just because they believe in something different.

You are, ofcourse, right. I'm just sad that good guitars cost so much. Far eastern guitar prices are rising at such a fast rate too. It seems common to have the Blackstar build approach of 'designed in the UK and made in China' same with most of the Orange gear I think (?) and I wish they were all made here (I love Orange amps). Would it really be THAT massive a price jump if they were? I'm genuinely interested as I have no idea. Perhaps it just means that I'm a racist bar-steward.

[Oli]

Usually when people see 'hand wired' they probably think of Turret boards, Eyelet boards, or real point to point and exclude Printed Circuit Board construction. However, they can all be made by hand, without the aid of machines, likewise you can have hand assembled parts in an amp that also include machine populated and wave soldered parts. A company's marketing team might blur the line between 'hand wired' and 'hand assembled' since a lot of amps will require some hand assembly to a varying degree.

Reminds me about a TV programme ages ago on similar 'sly' marketing tactics-- 'handmade' bread just meant that it had to have human contact, so a machine made it all, but as the dough came out on the conveyor on its way to the oven, a couple of lads just mushed their fingers into it for a second, no actual kneading or preparation at all.

I'd much rather take a wave-soldered through hole (or even an oven baked SMT) PCB over a human doing it, machine soldering like that is incredibly consistent.

[Afghan Dave]

It seems common to have the Blackstar build approach of 'designed in the UK and made in China' same with most of the Orange gear I think (?) and I wish they were all made here (I love Orange amps). Would it really be THAT massive a price jump if they were? I'm genuinely interested as I have no idea. Perhaps it just means that I'm a racist bar-steward.

Don't worry, I feel that within our lifetimes we'll be making cheap tat in the UK with our low paid labour for sale in the Latin America/China/India market..

Trouble is you still won't be able to afford it unless you emmigrate.

[Dmoney]

I've used china for building my own amp.

My personal amp I built has a pcb for the filter caps and some of the bias supply. The caps are EXCELLENT and way better spec than what you'll get in most amps but they are snap-in PCB mounted type. without wishing to try etching it myself and UK prototyping prices being too high, I could actually send the design files to china and get 5 prototype PCB's made at a fraction of the cost of getting one made here.

[Philly Q]

The last time I played a 3k Gibson it sounded and felt like a 400 bucks Indonesia made Ibanez to me, heck I own one of these and it's still better than most Gibsons that cost two grands or more! (Sorry Philly  :lol:)

You managed to find a Gibson with a skinny little neck like a toothpick?  :? :P

[Twinfan]

Lew - yes, the Collection is a limited run.  Mine is one of only ~7 made and no more can be produced as thers's no pernambuco left at PRS.

You are, ofcourse, right. I'm just sad that good guitars cost so much.

Indeed, no need to rant about it though  ;)

[Philly Q]

It seems common to have the Blackstar build approach of 'designed in the UK and made in China' same with most of the Orange gear I think (?) and I wish they were all made here (I love Orange amps). Would it really be THAT massive a price jump if they were? I'm genuinely interested as I have no idea. Perhaps it just means that I'm a racist bar-steward.

Don't worry, I feel that within our lifetimes we'll be making cheap tat in the UK with our low paid labour for sale in the Latin America/China/India market..

Trouble is you still won't be able to afford it unless you emmigrate.

This is probably (sort of) true!   As labour gets more expensive in India, China etc, and once you factor in transportation costs, manufacturing industry will - to some extent - return to the UK.

I heard recently that Hornby are now making some Airfix kits in the UK, having previously farmed it out to India or somewhere.

[Dmoney]

The last time I played a 3k Gibson it sounded and felt like a 400 bucks Indonesia made Ibanez to me, heck I own one of these and it's still better than most Gibsons that cost two grands or more! (Sorry Philly  :lol:)

You managed to find a Gibson with a skinny little neck like a toothpick?  :? :P

last modern LP Standard I played felt like it had a narrow-ish and shallow neck, and it felt too light and therefore was probably weight relieved. It did have a cool top, but that was all. It didn't feel correct to me, in comparison to other LP's

[Philly Q]

The last time I played a 3k Gibson it sounded and felt like a 400 bucks Indonesia made Ibanez to me, heck I own one of these and it's still better than most Gibsons that cost two grands or more! (Sorry Philly  :lol:)

You managed to find a Gibson with a skinny little neck like a toothpick?  :? :P

last modern LP Standard I played felt like it had a narrow-ish and shallow neck, and it felt too light and therefore was probably weight relieved. It did have a cool top, but that was all. It didn't feel correct to me, in comparison to other LP's

I think the current Standards have a neck with an asymmetrical profile (like a Music Man), can't remember the exact measurements but it's somewhere between the '50s and '60s necks.  Custom Shop LPs have more traditional neck shapes, some fat, some relatively skinny.  None of them are like Ibanez necks!

But what do you mean, "felt too light"?  Guitars can't be too light!  :P

My LP is just slightly less than 8 pounds, that's with a solid body, not weight relieved.  :D