Replace A-Bomb with Miracle Man? Or Cold Sweat? (Gibson SG)

[Dave Sloven]

While I am happy at times with my A-Bomb I am also finding it quite limited in an SG, in stark contrast to what people say regarding it being versatile in other guitars (e.g., Les Pauls). It might be that my SG is quite bright in the mids compared to some others, I don't know, but after lots of adjustments I've come to the conclusion that it might be too abrasive in character in that guitar for playing a lot of the stuff I play (especially the metal stuff).  I find it good for the punk and hardcore stuff that I play but not so great for metal and for most rock besides AC/DC (I think it does that fairly well, if you don't mind a slightly hardcore edge to your AC/DC type stuff). It might also be the case that I would have been better off with a ceramic magnet in the bridge for this application.

These issues are magnified somewhat by my amp, which tends to emphasize the low mids.

I am considering getting a Miracle Man bridge pickup for this guitar (even though exchange rates are sliding and BKPs are getting more expensive for us) as I've read here in various places that the MM is ideal for the SG.  I certainly think it might benefit from its more 'scooped' characteristics.  Hopefully it's a bit more versatile.  I have a Cold Sweat in the neck position which I think might work well with a MM, and it handles my needs vis-a-vis cleans.  I don't use the A-Bomb for cleans much at all, even though it sounds okay for that, simply because the CS sounds so good clean.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.  I figure I might get a cheap guitar like the recent Epiphone Les Paul Junior with the humbucker in it (I can get these for $200) and put the A-Bomb in that for a punk axe.  I NEVER use the Cold Sweat when playing punk stuff, it's all bridge.  The extra meat in the body of the LP Jnr might bring out some of the versatility of the A-Bomb that I'm not getting at the moment.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I never found the A-Bomb to be all that versatile either and had the same issue as you with a very edgy sound to it. I can't imagine a ceramic version beiong more versatile than alnico. I changed it for a different pup but always felt it would do better in something like a Les Paul. You'll find the Miracle Man a LOT smoother than the A-Bomb. I still wouldn't rush to call it 'versatile' though as that's more the Holydiver but I'm sure I recall reading somewhere that an SG is about the only guitar a Holydiver doesn't work in.

Have you thought about a Cold Sweat bridge to go with the neck version you like so much? The bridge is more open than the A-Bomb and packs quite a punch. As a bridge pup I think it's probably rather underated on here. The only other one that leaps to mind is the Rebel Yell, but I've never tried that one myself.

[Dave Sloven]

Thanks for the reply.  It's basically what I've been thinking.

What I am also wondering though is whether a 6-band EQ on the front end might be worth trying before spending $200 on another pickup?  I can get one of these second-hand here for $75 (including postage).  The value of this option would depend of course on the value of the EQ even if I do change pickups, but the real issue for me here is that I really do like the sound of the A-Bomb for punk and hardcore music, and I'm wondering if I might be able to cut some of the middiness of the SG before it gets to the pre-amp of my Peavey?  With a high-gain amp like that you have to be very careful with what you put in the front end.  I'm also getting a 10-band EQ for the effects loop, but that is for shaping the sound coming out of the pre-amp and cutting out some of that Peavey high-end fizz (apparently dumping the 16K frequency gets rid of most of that) but I am thinking that an EQ before the amp might be a good investment, even if I end up using it just as a lead boost.

Any ideas?   I realize that the EQ will not change the basic character of the pickup but it might help it act more like a C-Bomb when I need it to.

[EffigyForgotten]

I boost the mids on my 6260 with a Boss GE-7, sounds good to me. The Miracle Man is a completely different pickup than the Nailbomb so don't buy thinking its like a Nailbomb but more scooped.

[GuitarIv]

I'm just gonna chime in here quickly as I'm busy as hell learning till next week but didn't fail to notice this thread:

Basically from my understanding the Miracle Man will have nothing in common with the Nailbomb. I do own the MM as you know AO, never played the Nailbomb but judging from soundclips, the common opinion and the reviews here on the forum I can pretty much tell you that. Whereas the NB is described as 90s metal with the "hairy" character (can't find a better word for it right now) and has that "punk edge" you describe, I found the Miracle Man to be very organic and warm sounding for a ceramic PU. It sits somewhere in between the Warmth of my Holydiver and the Modern Sound of my Painkiller with the difference in the voicing of course. I don't miss any mids, they are not absent but the lows and low mids together with the highs are just more pronounced. It chuggs like a mofo and screams on leads, great for Thrash and Death Metal without going ultra modern. Amazing pinch harmonics and cutting high end. Don't know how it will sound in a SG, but it has turned my Strat into a mean old school Metal machine.

Cheers

[darkbluemurder]

Have you thought about a Cold Sweat bridge to go with the neck version you like so much? The bridge is more open than the A-Bomb and packs quite a punch. As a bridge pup I think it's probably rather underated on here.

Not by me :)
The CS bridge is a great pickup and this was exact my first thought when I read this thread. It is scooped in the low mids somewhat but has enough center and high mids so that it does not sound thin. It worked great for me to open up a middy sounding guitar.

Cheers Stephan

[Dave Sloven]

Yeah cheers Stephan I have given some serious thought to a Cold Sweat bridge and in fact when I went to my BKP shopping cart I found that I had added a CS bridge there about a month ago.  It could be a great option but for an SG I am thinking that the Miracle Man might be a better choice for the styles I play.  It could certainly handle Ozzy and Sabbath songs and as we worked out in the thrash thread it does a great job of that.  I have no intentions of selling the Nailbomb but I think it would be better used in another guitar, possibly a single pickup guitar or a guitar in which I don't use the neck pickup (and hence don't need to worry about changing it).  I have found the A-bomb to be fantastic for hardcore music and I would be keen to keep it for playing that sort of stuff, and I have also found it to be good for doing punkish covers of classic rock stuff from Rose Tattoo to AC/DC and even Accept.

I find myself in two minds though regarding the choice between a CS and MM bridge.  I know both will work well in my SG due to their mid-range 'scoop' (for want of a better term).  I'm just not convinced regarding the CS for thrash.  I'm wondering who's got a CS bridge in an SG and what they found it to be best at.  I'm happy with the CS neck for cleans and leads in this guitar and I get the feeling that either the CS or MM bridge will be a good match with it.  In my guitar the CS actually sounds louder than the NB, as I had to lower the NB quite a bit (and raised the pole pieces) in order to give a clearer sound, so I imagine that I can get the MM to match quite well with the CS neck by adjusting the height, and maybe the volume difference between it and my CS neck will be less?

[Dave Sloven]

I sent the following message to Ben at BKP:

I have bought a couple of sets of BKPs, one Warpig calibrated set which is doing well in my Epiphone Explorer, and a Cold Sweat neck + alnico Nailbomb bridge combo in a Gibson SG.

I think I may have expected too much 'versatility' from the Nailbomb.  I have found it to be excellent for some styles that I play - hardcore, hardcore-influenced metal, and some hard rock - but the mids of the SG combine with the mids of the nailbomb to make it less useful for a lot of the metal stuff that I play, and which the CS neck is good for.

I tend to really only use the bridge pickup for hardcore stuff, so I am thinking of moving it into another guitar specifically for that (another Gibson, or an Epiphone or Tokai copy) and getting something else for the SG to go with the CS neck.

I started a thread about this on the BKP forum. I started off asking about the Miracle Man as a match for the CS neck, which a lot of people supported, but the Cold Sweat bridge was also suggested.

I have read that both of these are safe choices for an SG.  Is this correct?  I am fairly confident that the CS/MM combo will work, and the calibrated sets of course work well together.

The main issue for me is style, and possible overlap with my other BKPs.

Clearly I will be able to put the NB into something to handle hardcore stuff, and it will also do certain thrash styles well (but not all).  That guitar will be in E or Eb standard

The Explorer with the Warpigs has the down-tuned death metal, grindcore, and doom metal stuff covered, and it works well with the Sabbath songs in C#.  I can also get Venom sound out of it in C# with some EQ.

What I would like my SG to cover are the styles of bands like Celtic Frost, Sodom, Destruction, Accept, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Ozzy, and maybe some Saxon, Thin Lizzy, or Iron Maiden.  I'd also like it to cover stuff like Kiss if possible.  These would all be in E standard or Eb.

I think I was too ambitious hoping to cover these styles together with the punk and hardcore styles with the Nailbomb.

Please give me your opinions on which bridge pickup would suit, especially for the SG, which seems to be finicky.

I should underline that the Nailbomb has not been muddy, it just has an extremely aggressive middy character that makes it great for hardcore but not for these styles.  I moved the pickup up and down for weeks and I have it now in the best possible spot (I have also adjusted the pole pieces) but it still retains this character.  It is brilliant for RDP, The Exploited, Poison Idea, and other bands of that style, as well as Sepultura.

I'm using 500K CTS pots and a full vintage-style harness with paper in oil WD Music caps.

I got the following reply:

Hi David,

It does sound like you'd benefit from a ceramic magnet pickup. The Miracle Man and Cold Sweat bridges have pronounced mid-scoop which could work for you.

They are both bright and tight (from the ceramics), but the MM is thicker and a lot more powerful. The CS bridge is crisper and very clear - a real 'Pro' choice.

You offered quite a range of bands - classic and very heavy, but it looks like you focus on the more extreme end of styles. With that in mind I reckon the Miracle Man bridge would suit very well.

Kind Regards,

Ben

I'm tending toward Ben's suggestion of the Miracle Man. That said, for this particular guitar I am really playing in standard tuning pretty much all of the time, and I am wondering if people here have experience playing stuff such as I indicated above - "Celtic Frost, Sodom, Destruction, Accept, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Ozzy, and maybe some Saxon, Thin Lizzy, or Iron Maiden" - with the Cold Sweat and/or Miracle Man bridge pickups.  With the exception of Celtic Frost, who have a very dark sound (which I attempt to get with the tone knob on the A-Bomb, and basically get half way there, and could possibly get all the way there with something like an MXR 6 band EQ before the distortion stage of my pedal board) the bands I listed don't seem too extreme to me (maybe I have been listening to grindcore for too long!).

I am wondering whether the Miracle Man can handle all of those.  I suspect it would be good for most or all of them before the 'maybe' but probably not those that come after it.  I find the A-Bomb does a pretty terrible job of Iron Maiden and I suspect the MM might too.  Not that I play that kind of stuff too much, and I probably would be better of with a set of Riff Raffs or even a Strat for playing that, so maybe it's too much to expect.  I can see how people end up with lots of guitars ...

These are the two main tones that I'd like to get from this guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXfv2nJ6WT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAH5sxv71V0

But I'd also like to get this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4n9PUj6YFA

& this:

Ozzy - 'Crazy Train'

EDIT: Now I am tending toward the Cold Sweat again!

[Dave Sloven]

OK ... I think what I am looking for is something close to a DiMarzio Super Distortion or Ibanez V2 in terms of reproducing those '80s tones ... maybe even a Dirty Fingers style pickup ... everything seems to be pointing toward the Cold Sweat bridge pickup - is that like a 'new & improved' version of those pickups, or sitting somewhere in the middle of them?

[EffigyForgotten]

Well for "80's tones" I would think the Holy Diver would be perfect and probably be good with the cold sweat, I think the HD can do practically anything I throw at it, I mostly play brutal death metal with it so that gives you an idea.

All three of those albums were probably recorded with EMG's (Sodom definitely), Celtic Frost probably and Slayer has used EMG's forever and their tone has mostly been the same, so the MM is probably what you want.

[Dave Sloven]

Thanks, I appreciate the reply and your ideas

Actually the Celtic Frost albums were recorded with an IC-50 Iceman (the cheap bolt-on neck version) with the stock pickups (probably V2s).  I don't know what Sodom and the others were recorded with.  In general though I worry that if I get a MM I will have two guitars with very hot pickups and not a lot of choice in tones.  The HD is tempting but elsewhere here I have read bad reports with them in SGs, and the same with Crawlers and A-Bombs (although the latter is more mixed).  Given that I will eventually put the A-Bomb in something else for hardcore purposes (it's excellent for that) what I think I probably need is a pickup that (1) has an excellent reputation in SGs (so far all reports with both CS and MM in SGs are excellent) & (2) can handle the spectrum  of rock and metal tones not covered by my other pickups.  With my Explorer I can tuned it up to Eb or even E in a pinch (perhaps with the Dunlop Heavy Core 11s set) but mainly I am using that in D standard to C standard (and maybe drop C if needed). I have the really brutal death metal stuff covered with that pickup.  I would however like a pickup that can stretch into Celtic Frost and Sodom territory as well as covering stuff like the Sykes era Thin Lizzy sound and even Iron Maiden, so I am definitely leaning toward the Cold Sweat, although this is the third time now that I have been tempted by the Miracle Man and I'm sure I will get a set of MMs one day in the future, perhaps in a Les Paul or even an F-spaced one in something like a Jackson Soloist.

The one thing I've learned out of my first BKP purchase (the CS/NB combo) is that hoping to cover every style I want with one guitar is a complete pipe dream.  I think that made it very difficult for BKP to recommend a pickup combo to me too.  I think I need a few guitars - even if a couple of them are just upgraded cheapies like Epiphones for stuff where the pickup 'takes over' due to its high output) - to cover all of the styles I like to play.

Thankfully I am not too obsessed with the blues - and if anything my interests there are more covered by my acoustic dreadnaught - that I need a vintage pickup guitar at the moment 

GAS  :?

EDIT: I've always been curious about the Slayer=EMG comments because I don't remember it that way (and I'm old). EMGs I thought came in when they started using ESP guitars, which was later than Metallica.  According the following long-winded bunfight over at the SD forum it seems that the early stuff was done with DiMarzios back when they used BC Rich guitars (before it was sold and became rubbish).

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?239150-SLAYER-question-What-pickups-were-used-by-Kerry-and-Jeff-on-Reign-in-Blood


EDIT:

I sent another email to Ben with a link to Celtic Frost's 'Dethroned Emperor' from the Morbid Tales album and basically stating that that tone was the heaviest one I am looking to get out of this guitar:

I am gravitating toward the matched set idea, having had a very positive experience with the Warpig set.

Given that I have a very powerful amp with a strong mid-range cut even with the mids turned right down (a Peavey 6534+), and a guitar with very pronounced mids (an SG Standard) a more scooped pickup would match up well.  At the moment I just have way too much mids for anything other than hardcore.

If the Cold Sweat bridge works very well in SGs then I am tending toward that.  The only thing that has ever had me a little concerned with the CS is that advice regarding mid-range (in terms of output) pickups in SGs.  I'm assuming that was more in regard to alnico pickups?  As I said from an output standpoint the alnico Nailbomb has been fine, and not muddy at all.  It's just very hairy and chainsaw like, which is amazing for playing hardcore of course but doesn't suit a lot of other stuff.

The stuff that I would be playing on the more 'extreme' end of the sound spectrum is Celtic Frost.  The way I approximate that sound with the Nailbomb is to roll the tone knob right back.  I also find that the CS neck sometimes gives a better Celtic Frost sound than the Nailbomb even when rolled back, although it's not quite right.  If the CS bridge is closer in sound to the CS neck but with some of the qualities of the MM it might work well for that.  The actual rig used by Tom G Warrior was the cheapest (bolt-on neck) version of the Ibanez Iceman (the  IC-50) through a tube screamer (which I have) and a JCM800, with the standard pickups in the Ibanez, which were the Super 70 (maybe these were also called Flying Fingers?) or V2.  I'm wondering if the Cold Sweat could *approximate* this sound (even if it needed a 6-band EQ before the tube screamer)?  Other than that I think the sounds I want from this guitar are a bit of a no-brainer for the CS: early Judas Priest, early Slayer, early Ozzy, basically a whole heap of late '70s and early '80s metal sounds (before the EMG era).  I'm worried that I might end up with two guitars with really hot pickups (i.e., this one and my Explorer and the Warpigs) plus a punk axe (whatever I put the Nailbomb into) and nothing that can cover these metal styles ranging from Scorpions to the early German thrash bands.

Do you think the CS can get this range of sounds, or do you think they are right out its range? 

Here's Ben's reply:

Hi David,

Yes the Cold Sweat bridge works well in SGs. The Cold Sweat bridge is quite different in design to the neck - the main difference is the magnets. If you need scooped mids, clarity and versatility, then the CS bridge will offer that. I listened to the clip - no problems there. Also fine for 70s/80s hard rock/metal.

Kind Regards,

Ben

Following Ben's reply and what I have thought about and read here I think I'm going to put an order in for a Cold Sweat bridge so that I have a matching set.  I've joined the 'calibrated set' club with two sets now, a Warpig set and now a Cold Sweat set. I may install just the A-bomb in the bridge of another guitar with one pickup (e.g., a Les Paul Junior or SG Junior, or a Kramer Baretta) or if it has two pickups I might eventually get a matching Nailbomb set.  In this particular guitar I found that the Cold Sweat neck and A-bomb did not match that well, just because the A-Bomb was so punkish and the Cold Sweat is so smooth.  They feel like you should be playing different styles with them. The bridge never felt right with this neck pickup as the neck pickup does not suit hardcore at all.

1 x    6 String Cold Sweat humbucker - Covered Bridge

    Bridge Spacing: 50 mm
    Conductor: 4
    Leg: Long (1/2")
    Cover: Chrome
    Etch: Bare Knuckle Pickups Etch

[Alex]

The MM is awesome in SGs. Loved it in mine. Only changed it because I wanted at least one guitar without a high gain pickup (though I still have a MM).

[Dave Sloven]

The MM is awesome in SGs. Loved it in mine. Only changed it because I wanted at least one guitar without a high gain pickup (though I still have a MM).

That's pretty much why I am avoiding the MM.  My other guitar has Warpigs in it and now I'll have a A-Bomb looking for a new home.  I need something that can do other things besides brutality and aggression, but can still bring it (at least to a thrash level) when needed.  I have grindcore, death metal, funeral doom, and hardcore covered between the other pickups.  The SG is also such a nice looking guitar I probably wouldn't trust it around my punk friends anyway, they'd probably spill beer all over it and smack into it with their studs  :D

[Slartibartfarst42]

I am wondering if people here have experience playing stuff such as I indicated above - "Celtic Frost, Sodom, Destruction, Accept, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Ozzy, and maybe some Saxon, Thin Lizzy, or Iron Maiden" - with the Cold Sweat and/or Miracle Man bridge pickups. 

I've played all of these with both the Cold Sweat and Miracle Man. My first choice to cover all of these styles would be a Holydiver but as I indicated earlier, I'm not sure it works in an SG. Of the Miracle Man and Cold SWeat, I'd choose the Miracle Man for Sabbath and Ozzy but probably edge towards the Cold Sweat for Priest, Saxon, Lizzy and Maiden. The Holydiver kinda sits between them, which is why it would be my first choice in any guitar other than an SG but I may be wrong and it would work fine. Anyone tried a Holydiver in an SG?

[GuitarIv]

I agree with Slart and would suggest a Holydiver if the guitar in question wasn't a SG. Deciding between the Cold Sweat and the Miracle Man however, I'll vote for the MM. Great pinch harmonics, chuggs like a mofo, screams on leads and has a quite organic character for a ceramic pickup. Plus I'm using Slarts Miracle Man in my Strat by now  :lol:

p.s.: I never thought it would happen, but the MM is slowly starting to replace the Holydiver as my favourite BKP...