Author Topic: Some help in buying a Metal Guitar (Read 25040 times)

Dakine · « **Reply #30 on:** January 22, 2007, 09:50:49 PM »

okidoki, explains your comments I spose.

MDV · « **Reply #31 on:** January 22, 2007, 10:14:09 PM »

I agree with the 'ESP are overrated and poor value' thing.

I've never, NEVER played an LTD that was worth the asking price. You have to get up to £500 for the quality to get even OK (whereas dean and ibanez there at about £300) and the hardware far outsrips the wood and construction 90% of the time. They feel cheap and clumsy and the harware over woods & quality policy is completely the wrong way round. You cant upgrade wood.

ESP sigs are vastly overpriced, but at least they're good guitars. They just have an extra 1000 tagged on the price for the name 'ESP' without the 'LTD' and the artists endorsment.

If youre on a budget davey is absolutely right: late 80s and early 90s jacksons are available for the same price that will own the shit out of a new LTD. You can get a '90 RG550 for £400 easily, and if its as new or close then it'll be a damn fine guitar.

Other than that:

Dean
Maverick
Yamaha

do some great metal guitars that will eat any LTD of the same price as a snack between meals. And you'll get more life out of them because they'll benefit far more from upgrades. Quality-wise you really cant fail to get value for money with yamaha in particular: at about 500, where LTDs start getting 'ok', yamaha start getting 'great'.

noodleplugerine · « **Reply #32 on:** January 22, 2007, 10:18:36 PM »

Thing about Deans is that you only get half decent pickups on the expensive models.

While ESP have EMG 81s on their £500 guitars.

I agree Dean have good quality control, but the los of features doesn't justify it in my opinion, since the high end Korean ESPs seem just as well built as far as I've seen.

noodleplugerine · « **Reply #33 on:** January 22, 2007, 10:22:40 PM »

Not sure what you mean by saying that ESP don't use good woods.

All their top end Koreans are Mahogany, Alder or Maple, and are all neck thru or set neck :S

And I'll stress this point again, I can get these guitars in the US since I have family and friends that ship stuff over for me all the time.

My mind's nowhere near made up, but the ESP LTDs I have played were fantastic. Fast necks, great sounds and meaty pickups, while made of good woods. Only other thing I'd ask for is an ebony fingerboard but I can make do without.

Dakine · « **Reply #34 on:** January 22, 2007, 10:36:36 PM »

for what it's worth. IMO, in US you can get ALOT of guitar for £500. And ESP aint exactly the only game in town, nor Dean etc.

noodleplugerine · « **Reply #35 on:** January 22, 2007, 10:39:58 PM »

Indeed, but I wouldn't get much better features than those mentioned unless I spend a few hundred more.

Dakine · « **Reply #36 on:** January 22, 2007, 10:41:29 PM »

used?
Why buy new when ya can get a good used one better for less?

noodleplugerine · « **Reply #37 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:03:49 PM »

Used is good, but used is risky, and used from the US would be even riskier :P

Seen some good deals on Evilbay - But never the kind of thing I would buy new if ya know what I mean.

Bought my last guitar (Epiphone SG custom) for £200 on an impulse buy, 2nd hand, and it was one of my worst ever mistakes. I love the guitar, even though it's hopelessly bad. But at the time I had £350 or so to spend on a guitar, and if I had been slightly more knowledgeable at the time I would never had made the mistake.

Dakine · « **Reply #38 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:05:08 PM »

but you have ppl. in the USA right, so risky?
Limiting I say. But then, what would I know.

MDV · « **Reply #39 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:06:49 PM »

Quote from: noodleplugerine

Not sure what you mean by saying that ESP don't use good woods.

All their top end Koreans are Mahogany, Alder or Maple, and are all neck thru or set neck :S

Those are just names. What grade wood?

What a wood is called is only an indicator, really. Theres A LOT of variation within the same specis. Really, huge amounts: different forests, different countries, different trees and different PARTS of ONE tree will give you massive variations in wood as far as grain density and consistency go. Thats whats really important in a tone wood, when all's said and done, and the species is in second place.

Similarly with set necks, glue dampens transmission of vibration, so the contact has to be pretty much wood:wood with just a bit of glue in there or you lose tone and sustain. You cant see that, you have to listen for it. Its very easy to make a CHEAP (operative word here, guitar companies are in business people! Nothing wrong with that, you just have to get a bit wise to how it works) and cr@ppy join thats clumsily machined with masses of glue in there.

Thru is more consistent: what happens there is you lose the tone of the wings, which is less important.

Trust your eyes and ears.

dave_mc · « **Reply #40 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:07:00 PM »

Quote from: noodleplugerine

About what you said before on the amps:

I've heard to a few demos of the El Diablo, and it sounds great, bucketfulls on gain, which I absolutely love.

About the amps you listed: Diezel and Mesa are a wee bit out of my price range, and all I've got is a soul to sell at the moment, and even that wouldn't fetch much more than a fiver :P

Engl are quite expensive aswell, right? Only heard good things about them though. Cornford, Framus, Koch and Splawn, all seem rather ambiguous to me, would need to sit down and try one out, but due to the fact I've never heard of Splawn or ED that could be difficult.... Again my budget's not alot more than £700-800 on a new amp, and I'd need a while to save to get enough for that.

The El Diablo fits that nicely, has had great reviews and I've heard Mr Genzler sends out free tubes xD

ED? hehehe, that was my abbreviation of the el diablo, lol. Sorry about the misunderstanding! :lol:

Engl can get dear, but there are cheaper models too. The blackmore is my current fave of the not-super-expensive engls. I might be biased, though, since it reminds me most of my savage se, lol. I'd say engl have more gain than the el diablo, too.

Main thing is to make sure you try as many things as possible. It's virtually impossible to judge on soundclips. There are too many variables, it's just plain a bad idea. Also, disregard amps you haven't heard of at your peril. Many are awesome. Also, it's not like Genz-Benz is the best known make, lol.

Quote from: Crazy_Joe

I didn't say the same specs, i said the same quality. And when i say that i mean companies like Dean and Ibanez.

+1. good pickups doesn't mean a good guitar. And it means there's less money to put into the more important parts, like the wood (you can switch pickups, for example). Check out the thread in the Time Out forum!

(I don't think I've tried any LTD's, by the way- at least not for ages. I always find something I want to try more! LTD do seem to be extremely expensive for what they are, though.)

Quote from: Dakine

Joe, just wondering, you seem hellish knowledgeable on all these guitars these days, how have you played em all? Do you work in a large guitar shop after school nowadys? :roll:

you seem awful harsh on ol' Joe these days, nick?

I agree with Mark about Yamaha, they are excellent guitars for the money. The Pacifica and AES series are very nice for the cash. Don't look particularly metal, but a quick warpig or miracle man swap should fix that... Ibanez SZ are pretty nice too, but you'd want to try several, the QC can be dodgy.

Crazy_Joe · « **Reply #41 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:12:25 PM »

Yeah i agree with the other guy (:lol: forgot the name) you can't say ''oh well it says it's mahogany so it has to be good''.

What you are indicating to me here is just because it says mahogany you think it has been chopped down from some enchanted forest where all the magical custom shop guitars are made. You are indicating that say Basswood is worse, when some of the worlds greatest guitarists use/used basswood guitars.

You can't judge a wood by the name, only by the grade.

dave_mc · « **Reply #42 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:12:54 PM »

Quote from: noodleplugerine

Not sure what you mean by saying that ESP don't use good woods.

All their top end Koreans are Mahogany, Alder or Maple, and are all neck thru or set neck :S

And I'll stress this point again, I can get these guitars in the US since I have family and friends that ship stuff over for me all the time.

My mind's nowhere near made up, but the ESP LTDs I have played were fantastic. Fast necks, great sounds and meaty pickups, while made of good woods. Only other thing I'd ask for is an ebony fingerboard but I can make do without.

there are different qualities of woods. Do you think for a second that PRS or Suhr are using the same quality of mahogany as LTD or Epiphone?

Jeez.

And mahogany can be used to describe so many different species of woods, it's a lottery. Unless you know you're getting from a reputable source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahogany

Quote from: MDV

Quote from: noodleplugerine
Not sure what you mean by saying that ESP don't use good woods.

All their top end Koreans are Mahogany, Alder or Maple, and are all neck thru or set neck :S

Those are just names. What grade wood?

What a wood is called is only an indicator, really. Theres A LOT of variation within the same specis. Really, huge amounts: different forests, different countries, different trees and different PARTS of ONE tree will give you massive variations in wood as far as grain density and consistency go. Thats whats really important in a tone wood, when all's said and done, and the species is in second place.

Similarly with set necks, glue dampens transmission of vibration, so the contact has to be pretty much wood:wood with just a bit of glue in there or you lose tone and sustain. You cant see that, you have to listen for it. Its very easy to make a CHEAP (operative word here, guitar companies are in business people! Nothing wrong with that, you just have to get a bit wise to how it works) and cr@ppy join thats clumsily machined with masses of glue in there.

Thru is more consistent: what happens there is you lose the tone of the wings, which is less important.

Trust your eyes and ears.

Garg. Stole my thunder. :lol:

EDIT:

Quote from: Crazy_Joe

Yeah i agree with the other guy (:lol: forgot the name) you can't say ''oh well it says it's mahogany so it has to be good''.

What you are indicating to me here is just because it says mahogany you think it has been chopped down from some enchanted forest where all the magical custom shop guitars are made. You are indicating that say Basswood is worse, when some of the worlds greatest guitarists use/used basswood guitars.

You can't judge a wood by the name, only by the grade.

Et tu, Brute?

Garg, what is this, steal Dave's thunder day?

:lol:

Crazy_Joe · « **Reply #43 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:17:31 PM »

:lol: sorry man, i guess everyone just wants a piece of the action!

dave_mc · « **Reply #44 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:21:26 PM »

^ heh, no problem, I'm just kidding.

:lol:

:drink: