Which multi FX?

[sgmypod]

voted xt because of whole package upgradeable..and of course sound.....but if maudio blackbox or the linn audio adrenalinn(blackbox is based on it) then would have chosen them for sound

[Doadman]

I will certainly be trying them all at a place that sells the same model amp as I have now to see how they hook it up as I think in the long term I'd have to change the amp as well to get the best out of it. This article is quite a long read but offers a tremendous insight into what's on the market. Sadly the article predates the Tonelab LE so it's the SE version that's tested here.

http://www.thestompbox.net/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleID=21

To a degree it reinforces some of the comments made here though for the price it makes the GNX3000 look remarkably good with the amp models even rivalling the Tonelab.

[Philly Q]

I have a PodXT and a Digitech GNX4 - I find the PodXT much more user-friendly and the tones are great.  Of course it doesn't sound like a row of boutique stompboxes through a Dumble Overdrive Special, but as we've discussed before unless you actually need a gigging amp and/or live in a soundproofed air hangar in the Highlands, so what?

The GNX4 sounds quite a lot more "artificial" to me, but to be fair I've never spent much time getting to grips with it.  It was an ill-advised GAS purchase, to be honest.  :oops:  

I've never tried the GT-8 or Tonelabs so I can't really comment, but I have read a lot of very favourable reviews of the Vox units.

[lifted]

I pick the TonelabSE   cuz of the organicness of the sounds.   I had a GNX4 FOR ONE WEEK, PLAYED IT LIVE, AND IT DIDN'T SWITCH QUICK ENOUGH IN REAL TIME.  It also sounded harshly trebly  and digital with the the treble down to low as it would go.  I have two bk equiped guitars, mind you.   The vox has a lot of sweet clean mods, and I even get  a decent metal chunk from an Apache bridge thru their  recto mod.  Tried the gt6, not the 8, but could never get the same sound twice.  I had a zoom g7 ut, which was ok, but the cleans seemed louder than the dirties always.   Good switching speed and Noise reduc.  The tonelab's weakest link IS the noise reduc, but sounds loads more tubey than the Zoom w/ the tube.   So my vote is for the tonelab.

[lifted]

I pick the TonelabSE   cuz of the organicness of the sounds.   I had a GNX4 FOR ONE WEEK, PLAYED IT LIVE, AND IT DIDN'T SWITCH QUICK ENOUGH IN REAL TIME.  It also sounded harshly trebly  and digital with the the treble down to low as it would go.  I have two bk equiped guitars, mind you.   The vox has a lot of sweet clean mods, and I even get  a decent metal chunk from an Apache bridge thru their  recto mod.  Tried the gt6, not the 8, but could never get the same sound twice.  I had a zoom g7 ut, which was ok, but the cleans seemed louder than the dirties always.   Good switching speed and Noise reduc.  The tonelab's weakest link IS the noise reduc, but sounds loads more tubey than the Zoom w/ the tube.   So my vote is for the tonelab.

[msplines]

I also had the GNX and yes, it didn't switch quickly enough, bloody awful problem and I sold it very quickly.

[Doadman]

For a while there I thought I'd have to change my amp as it doesn't have the usual send and return sockets for effects at the back, just the one instead. I had assumed that I'd need to connect to the back of the amp as if I went through the front, the preamp would colour the sound too much, however, I spoke to a guy yesterday who said that he regularly deals with Marshall amps direct and the advice that comes from their designers is to never use any kind of distortion effect through the effects loop; they must always go front end. Initially I wasn't too happy about this because all of the advice I've had so far tells me that if I go through the front end the preamp will colour the sound too much and destroy the effect I'm after, which is essentially overdriven to high gain valve amps at bedroom sound levels. He was now telling me that I couldn't go through the back either as the distortion destroys the connection! I don't see why that should be but he said he was just passing on what the designers of the amps had told him. He told me that he'd been playing for years and tried loads of gear and as long as I was going through the clean channel with all controls set to 12 O' clock then any colouring of the tone would be negligable to all but the most obsessive about their tone.

I wouldn't have thought that using a Pod XT Live through any solid state amp would colour the sound too much, though I can see how going through the front of a valve amp might. If this information is accurate, and I don't see why it shouldn't be, then I might as well get one of the multi FX units, run it through the front of my existing amp and then leave changing the amp until the end of its natural life and then maybe change it for a PA style system.

I will certainly try them side by side and I do intend to take my guitar and amp there on the day. I think it will boil down to where my priorities lie. I'm not really a huge effects junkie so a million different effects in a unit doesn't bother me, though a little chorus and delay etc. are nice - the usual suspects in fact. My main priority is to get a decent range of valve amp sounds at sensible bedroom levels as I fiddle around with things between BB King and Synyster Gates, though I mostly prefer the gain pushed up a bit. If the multi FX unit can give a good simulation of a high gain Dual Rectifier then I'm a good part of the way to where I want to be. If I had the room or played in a band then I'd simply get a good valve amp, shove a good distortion unit in front of it and maybe invest in a couple of decent stompboxes. Sadly I'm not in that position so I need an alternative and these modellers seem to offer an all in one solution that would suit my current situation but also be able to grow with me as my ability improves and possibly other opportunities present themselves.

I'm not sure if that clarification helps at all  :D

[Woogie]

Check out www.thestompbox.net and there is a shootout between them all.

[Kilby]

Moddeled distortion and traditional distortion / overdrive / fuzz are different.

Very basically traditional pedals amplified the guitar signal using, transitors (germanium or silicon), opamps or a mixure of both. These componatns where pushed past the limits of that they could cleanly reproduce. Thereby producing a dirty sound.

A second effect was that they give a hefty kick to the input of the amp, therefore helping to create another layer of distortion. Often it's these two layers that help the signature tones that we all love

Modelling (and most of the disgital pedals), usually just emulate this process, and don't even give you a proper clean boost.

In times past you would (usually) put your distortion and tone based pedals (wah for example) into the input of the amp.

Anything using time based effects such as echo (surprise), reverb, chorus (phase and flange can be included here) would tend to go into an fx loop.

This (historical background) is probably where the Marshall recommendation is coming from.

Going in through a clean channel, with your eq set flat and no preamp gain will give you somthing quite neutral, though remember turning up the master volume on the amp will start to colour the sound (either through power amp distortion on a valve amp, or the clipping in the case of an SS amp). Needless to say the gain/preamp baing turned up wil colout it even more ;)

What amp are you planning to use ?

Rob...

[Doadman]

It's a Crate GT65 solid state amp. I went with this amp because as a solid state I could use it at practical bedroom levels but it was powerful enough to use reasonably effectively if the opportunity to gig came along. My interest in one of these multi FX units is based on the same principle really. It's quite cost effective, gives my a range of valve type tones at sensible volumes, a wide range of effects to try out but is also sophisticated enough that I won't simply outgrow it in the near future.

[sgmypod]

have podxt for sale and fcb1010 midi controller to control it

[matteo]

only effect pedal i use is the digitech hendrix experience pedal and that kicks ass!! :twisted: great fuzz and wah plus a load of crazy effects!
not exactly as versatile as the mentioned pedals  though

in guitar mags when theyre transcribing on the cd they always use th pod? they must rate it well if they always use it

[Doadman]

I must confess, that does make perfect sense

[noodleplugerine]

If it's any help I have the ME-50, and while not the best tone - It's super sturdy, super user friendly and definetly does the job - Amazing for live use, but not great for tone nazi studio recording :p

[Doadman]

Today I tried the Pod XT Live; Boss GT8 and Tonelab LE side by side and thought I'd let you know how I got on.

Pod XT Live
I expected alot more from this unit as it appears to be very popular but I was tremendously disappointed. With some work I could coax some decent tones out of it but overall the sound was extremely processed and digital. This was fine for extreme Metal where the lack of genuine valve tone wasn't as important to my ear but as soon as the gain was backed off it was terrible. This is a unit I will not be buying.

Boss GT8
There were pros and cons for this one. On the plus side you had absolutely loads of amp models and millions of effects. You also had the option of A and B channels so you could switch between amp models on a single patch. Something many people might like is the extent to which you can adjust parameters for every aspect of the sound. You could also manipulate the effects chain to suit yourself. Quite impressive tones were available for most of the models and with 46 different amp models that was impressive.

On the down side, there were so many effects I started wondering just how many I'd actually use! Being able to adjust everything is fine but against that it becomes very fiddly and I'd like to play my guitar instead of spend the rest of my life adjusting settings. No doubt I'd get used to it and being a guy, all those gadgets are VERY tempting. I think I'd have to keep it a long time before I outgrew it. The sound wasn't as bad as the Pod and in many cases was very impressive but it was still clearly processed.

Overall I liked this one alot. It offered endless possibilities and some very decent models but in a way, it seems too much. I think that for most guitarists it would be 90% unused.

Vox Tonelab LE
Compared to the GT8 this is severely limited. It only uses 16 amp models instead of 46; it has only 120 available patches instead of 340; you don't have the dual amp function; it has a fraction of the effects and you can't manipulate the effects chain. Furthermore, if extreme Metal is your thing, you may find it a little limited in its range. On paper it gives away a hell of a lot to the GT8 but that is to ignore the Vox's 'ace in the hole' - the real valve preamp. All I can say is that this thing really does work. I'd been impressed with the available tones on the GT8 but the Vox is awesome in the way it can reproduce a valve tone. I know that the purists out there will tell me it's still nowhere near as good as a real tube amp but that's not the point. Whereas other units claim to reproduce valve tones, the Tonelab genuinely does it, the UK 80s amp model (presumably a Marshall stack) being particularly impressive. I've read lots of reviews saying that this can't do Metal but that simply isn't true. It has its limits certainly but you'd have to be looking at playing very extreme Metal before this let you down. The effects are limited but you do have various distortions, Chorus; Compression; Phaser; Flanger; Delay and Reverb. How much more than that do any of us really need?

To me the real question is, do I want the endless possibilities presented by the GT8 or the superb tone of the Tonelab? At the moment I'm 90% in favour of the Tonelab but I'm going to sit on it a while and try them both again at the end of the month to see if I still feel the same and then I'll make my purchase. I'll keep you posted.