Tramp the dirt down

[ToneMonkey]

Oooh, politics. This can only end well  :lol:

[MrBump]

Oooh, politics. This can only end well  :lol:

 :D

You're so right.  I'm off before Johnny Mack shows up - I'm sure I've already p!ssed him off about this on Facebook...

[Ian Price]

I started this on the off topic off topic forum, feel free not to participate

Well, clearly you feel very passionately about this. Like Philly I'm indifferent to it all. I do feel that it isn't good forum form to post a thread that is likely to prompt heated exchanges and then tell others to not participate (unless, I'm assuming, they share the same opinion as you).

I'm wondering how long it will take for this thread to be locked.

[Twinfan]

Dave - Countries don't break.

That's a tabloid notion that doesn't ever belong in any rational argument.

It was broken by previous poor governments, surely?

[Twinfan]

I am disappointed to see this thread on the forum.

I was too Steve.  I only participated to try and bring some balance.

[MrBump]

Dave - Countries don't break.

That's a tabloid notion that doesn't ever belong in any rational argument.

It was broken by previous poor governments, surely?

Nope.  By definition you can't break a Country.  Ain't like dropping a PRS...

 

Bad sh!t happens, but nothing breaks.  Bad people do bad things, but nothing breaks. 

[Afghan Dave]

I too lived through the times and these dabates in the 80s and I shall keep my own views private now.

What I was so sure of then, I'm not as sure of now and the same will probably apply to my current views tomorrow.

I just got back from a funeral today and for my part I see nothing to celebrate in anothers passing.

[clyde billt]

Yes Ian I do feel very passionately about this subject. And for a very long time.
I can't feel indifferent to what happened, as it happened to me and my friends and family.

I posted on this section  (off topic off topic) so people would participate.
It's a forum, a place where people openly discuss .
And it's not a problem if people don't share the same opinion as me.
I've been getting involved in arguments on this one since 1980.
After pickets, strikes, riots, police beatings and fist fights with co-workers, some people on the internet voicing their opinions is not something that would upset me.

Did you really think that I would have known her personally? Of course not.
Was your own post not designed to elicit a reaction?

I'm expecting others to participate, however it's not compulsory. If you dont really have anything to discuss then feel free not to to.

My ire is not directed at anyone on here.
Not at all, you are all good guys.
But yeah... I'm passionate on this one.

[MrBump]

What I was so sure of then, I'm not as sure of now and the same will probably apply to my current views tomorrow.

That's age, that is.

Or possibly wisdom.

Or beer.

[richard]

I'm 55 and, as a young man, I lived through an era of optimism where there were genuine reasons for thinking that life was getting better for all members of society in the UK. Maggie tore everything to pieces with her utter contempt for the working class and her unabashed love for the rich. Look at some of today's problems - no social housing ? Of course not, Maggie sold it all. Welfare system out of control ? It was Maggie and her cohorts who encouraged millions of people to claim Incapacity Benefit so they didn't appear on the unemployment statistics. The woman was pure evil.

Ding Dong the wicked witch...................

[Philly Q]

Where's nfe?

[ToneMonkey]

Where's nfe?

Still typing!

[Twinfan]

LOL!

[Fourth Feline]

I'm sick of hearing from the haters, they're on every forum and all over Facebook.  She was voted into power by the public, and turned around a country that was at rock bottom.  I see huge similarities in what she did and what the coalition is doing now - doing the right thing for the country is going to cause some pain, but overall it's the right thing to do.

Celebrating the death of someone is a very strange attitude to take, and I just don't understand it.

Well said - and ( perhaps not surprisingly )  it mirrors my own reaction to the news.   As someone who came up working through the 70s and 80s  ( working in every thing from 'Blue chip' companies ,  to temporary bouts of unskilled casual work )  I feel that what you said, echos my reflections on those times.  As Afghan Dave implied, there are certain aspects of her psyche - and policies,  that give rise to doubts in retrospect ;  but all in all - I gained much from those times , and their influence and inspiration .  For me , she was only acting as an external advocate ,  of those attributes and attitudes that I felt were important to apply internally - in order to adapt and evolve ;  both at my places of work ,  and as a set of internal disciplines to structure and keep moving forward in my private life.   

Yes, I feel that she got certain things askew, due to her somewhat unyielding persona, but  at that time, U.K. Politics where not the rather grey and homogeneous  creature they are now ;  they were the stark difference between the world of the Unions and traditional Labour Party,  vs  the phase opposite of her Government at the time.  Such sharp contrasts may not have been entirely constructive, but it  certainly made the polling booth quite a tangy experience.

The main thing  ( I feel ) is not to waste energy 'hating' anything as such ;  but to learn from the whole experience - and move forward.  I just feel that it is more important to reflect and evolve ,  than to entrench ourselves in re-cementing any memory of the past, however compelling that memory was.

[clyde billt]

For me , she was only acting as an external advocate ,  of those attributes and attitudes that I felt were important to apply internally

Who was she acting as advocate for Jonathan, when her and Ian McGregor sat up all night (his words from his autobiography) planning the downfall of the miners union as a "punishment' (again his words) for destabilising the previous Tory government, 3 years before the strikes happened.

When Arthur Scargill told anyone that would listen that McGregors plan for the UK mining sector would lead to unnecessary closures and loss of incomes for thousands of families he was derided in the press.
That was a strategy by the two of them to "personalise" the dispute using Scargill as an aunt sally.
They had the Saatchi Bros and Eddie Shah (currently under investigation for child rape) put pressure on the media to always mentions Scargills name rather than the miners union.
They made sure that the strikes would happen.

The police were paid huge amounts of overtime to enforce very dodgy and hastily arranged local by-laws about crowd gathering.
A favourite police tactic was to photocopy payslips and throw them at miners who hadn't earned for months.
Police were flown down on privately chartered aircraft from all over the country, paid for by the rest of us, when we weren't allowed (by law) to drive to a legally arranged picket.
This usually ended up with a kicking at the least and probably jailed.

I'm not forgetting this stuff. Or forgiving it.
If we do then it will happen again. it will
Moving on without acknowledging past wrongdoing is not moving on, it is condoning it

Anger is an energy (according to John Lydon) , and I'm not wasting any energy in my feelings towards all those that were involved during Thatchers time in government.
My energy is being wasted trying to open this $%&#ing wine bottle